Derby 4 -2 Wolves The Verdict

[North West Wanderer]

Let me state from the outset - I don't think the manager is the fundamental reason we lost that game. It's down to Derby spending £20m over the summer and man for man, being better than us (as far as the midfield/forwards go, and how they operate as a unit) - we aren't going to face many better midfielders than Bradley Johnson this season, he cost £6m, we aren't in that market - and individual errors at the back; three of those goals are very poor and easily preventable (I'll give them a pass on the first one even if it was a bit easy right off a throw in - but neat football and a fantastic strike). That's not to exonerate Ken, of course. Setting the team up with no pace out wide was a poor move, and it seems perverse that we have multiple players capable of playing on the left of midfield but we've seen Edwards and Wallace out there by choice this season. Those two are not wide players, please don't put them there. But that said - there is no way that picking say, Ojo instead of Wallace would have been likely to produce a different end result today.

Wallace looked very lightweight and though he's reasonably tidy in possession he'll get hustled out of games too easily in this league as it stands. Batth had a very rough game but again Martin is one of the best operators in this division - arguably the difference between the sides today. I'm a big fan of Iorfa and Martinez but they both have to carry a large share of the blame for this defeat, we were on top when they had their double mindmelt. Probably the least effective game I've seen Price have, he didn't get on the ball like he normally does and he wasn't stopping Hendrick/Johnson when Martin was linking the play. McDonald never really got a foothold in the game.

Not so sure why Henry has got pelters as I thought he had a very decent first half and had the beating of Forsyth throughout. Delivery was variable but that was the least of our issues so odd for him to be singled out. The strikers took their goals well, despite the mistake for the second goal Iorfa handled Russell pretty well, similarly Martinez made some smart stops.

Disappointing to lose a game after a good run of course, but sometimes you just have to walk away and say you're up against a superior team - not that you should accept defeat before a ball's kicked, but you have to keep in mind where the clubs are at the moment off the pitch. Derby's net spend in the summer was around 20 times ours. No reason why we can't pick ourselves back up and win on Wednesday, the team hasn't become terrible overnight and Jackett hasn't become a bad manager. Sadly some are just itching to have a crack at him every time we lose. He won't be going anywhere in the short term, his position has strengthened since the club went up for sale (unless he looks like sending us back down to L1, which is very unlikely).

Just a note on the ref - should have blown for HT after the penalty save. Time was up, Derby shouldn't have been allowed to take the corner.

Completely agree with all this. I don't get the mini meltdowns by fans across all platforms when we lose.

 

[Lycan]

I only saw until just before half time (must've left just before the pen) but what I saw wasn't too bad. Again, a little bit disappointing that we're not as good a team as Derby appear to be after our form towards the back end of last season but our shoddy transfer window has been discussed to death elsewhere. I thought on the balance of play we were a little hard done by to be 2-1 down when I left, although there were some clear problems beginning to develop in the way we were standing off them and allowing them to pick their pass into Chris Martin's feet.

KJ has far too much respect for Derby County IMO. He's got a boner for Chris Martin a mile long (as evidenced by the way he's tried to turn every Wolves striker over 5"6 into him. Even Leon FFS) and the only attempt to throw him off his game was to have Danny Batth barge into him a few times early on. I didn't feel like there was enough done to bloody Derby's nose, it was just 'sit back, stick to your positions and hope James Henry can create something special' (which he almost did tbf to him).

As has been said earlier though, Derby have spent a ridiculous amount on their squad, a draw would've been a cracking result so I'm not too distraught over the defeat.

 

[Langers]

Completely agree with all this. I don't get the mini meltdowns by fans across all platforms when we lose.

Yep - absolutely. Deutsch summed it up perfectly for me. As I said on the matchday thread, I thought Derby were excellent. Unfortunately, we weren't at our best and we got them on a good day. Again!

 

[North West Wanderer]

As for James Henry I though at times he was great.

He's not gonna be great all the time, such is the nature of his position.

 

[Lord Knows]

I think defensively Wolves front four players were not doing enough to close down the space which Derby were looking to use when building attacks. That coupled with Derby's ability to come off a marker in midfield and in forward positions enabled a comfortable home victory. I thought tactically Kenny Jackett could have asked more of those players to stem most of the offensive play at source.
I dont expect Wolves to go the full Klopp but the need to work harder looked obvious.

 

[YoungWolf]

We've never been a team who press under Jackett though, he prefers to drop off and make it hard for the other team to break us down. And he has generally done a wry good job of it

 

[Lord Knows]

We've never been a team who press under Jackett though, he prefers to drop off and make it hard for the other team to break us down. And he has generally done a wry good job of it

Sometimes you require that option particularly when your opponents are finding it so easy to get on the ball in space in and around your box. Yesterday was one of those days when Wolves by standing off left themselves chasing clever players with clever movement.

 

[StuardoWulf]

Afobe losing interest/belief?

Brentford at home is a game we should win and if we win those type of games it will keep us in that top half. Whether that will ultimately be enough for players like Benik to want to stay remains to be seen

Simply it wont! and I would think that with no hope of promotion at the Jan window and a lot of premiership teams needing to find goals we may end up having to accept a unrealisticly high price for him (which wont be reinvested in full).
As for Kenny although he has to take responsibility for his poor tactics which we can dispute all day, the players have to take a look at theirselves.
Batth, McDonald and Pricey after all the plaudits of a fortnight ago put in a performance like that! Is that complacency or are they not really that good? Afobe himself is playing poorly but that wont stop them lining up to take the highest scorer of last year in all divisions.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Simply it wont! and I would think that with no hope of promotion at the Jan window and a lot of premiership teams needing to find goals we may end up having to accept a unrealisticly high price for him (which wont be reinvested in full).
As for Kenny although he has to take responsibility for his poor tactics which we can dispute all day, the players have to take a look at theirselves.
Batth, McDonald and Pricey after all the plaudits of a fortnight ago put in a performance like that! Is that complacency or are they not really that good? Afobe himself is playing poorly but that wont stop them lining up to take the highest scorer of last year in all divisions.

No player ever hits the same standards week in week out, those that consistently play at a good level in the championship will be a rare breed. I don't think any of the players you have mentioned have ever been accused of complacency so that seems a weird one to throw at them based on one performance. McDonald and Price were up against probably one of the most talented midfields in this division who were playing in front of their own crowd and were having a very good game. Our midfield has done the same to lesser opponents in the past.

I didn't think there was a gulf between the two sides and on another day we would have come away with something. We fell short at key moments and that cost us.At 1-1 we were very much in the ascendency and had we gone on and scored the game could well have developed very differently. The third goal, came as it did so close to half time, changed the whole complexion of the game and we were never really in it again after that.

 

[Dinowolf]

As for James Henry I though at times he was great.

He's not gonna be great all the time, such is the nature of his position.

IMO he wasted too much of the possession he had. Yes, he put a couple of superb crosses into the box in good areas but there were too many occasions when he over-hit the crosses or tried wayward shots. Unless he went down the wing and beat the fullback, which he did quite often, he usually lost the ball by cutting inside and getting tackled, as he has no power in possession.
He wasn't the only one as Wallace was the same. Playing the ball into space is no good if your forwards want the ball to feet. Consequently, you're just giving the ball back to the opposition all the time.

 

[Lycan]

I'm finding it really difficult to get excited about watching Jed Wallace. Where the hell is the player we signed from Portsmouth?

Is he still struggling with his injury/lack of pre-season? Is he being played out of position? Or is it just too big of a step up for him from League 2?

 

[Johnny75]

I think all of those things Lycan. He's clearly a proper #10.

 

[StuardoWulf]

I didn't think there was a gulf between the two sides ?Really and on another day we would have come away with something. We fell short at key momentsFootball IS key moments and that cost us. At 1-1 we were very much in the ascendency We weren't!! and had(avoided the word IF) we gone on and scored the game could well have developed very differently. The third goal, came as it did so close to half time, changed the whole complexion of the game and we were never really in it again after that.

We were outclassed and out worked by a classy team IMO I wasnt there so some nuances will be lost to me but I dont think we were seriously in it.
Half time team talk was ineffectual again no plan B.

 

[Langers]

We were outclassed and out worked by a classy team IMO I wasnt there so some nuances will be lost to me but I dont think we were seriously in it.
Half time team talk was ineffectual again no plan B.

Of course we were in it. We were in the ascendancy after we equalised. ALF's shot that was charged down could have given us the lead. Sadly, we gave away a really poor goal, our heads dropped, Derby smelled blood and we let that crucial 3rd in just before half time. Then there was no coming back, and we looked well beaten from then on.

 

[Walnut]

When we make individual mistakes as we did yesterday you are never going to win a game.
As previously said at 1-1 we were in the ascendancy, and then a poor ball out of defence and we gave the game back to Derby.

 

[Premier Quality]

As for James Henry I though at times he was great.

He's not gonna be great all the time, such is the nature of his position.

I agree with that - worked his arse off, had the beating of his full back and some excellent passing. His crossing was a bit crap though which was odd as its normally a good part of his game.

 

[Lord Knows]

I think all of those things Lycan. He's clearly a proper #10.

Looks to me as though he needs to play in to a proper ten because he does have the ability to run off the back of a marker for a proper ten to then find with a pass. I think he struggles at the moment because we lack someone we can play into who will look after it which enables the likes of Walace to then show their quality.

 

[YoungWolf]

I'm finding it really difficult to get excited about watching Jed Wallace. Where the hell is the player we signed from Portsmouth?

Is he still struggling with his injury/lack of pre-season? Is he being played out of position? Or is it just too big of a step up for him from League 2?

He needs time. If we was performing like this with a full pre-season behind him and actually in his proper position consistently I'd be asking questions, but I know what a good player he is so I'm not worried. He's not ready yet though, I'd be tempted to loan him out temporarily.

I would play him behind Afobe myself, but KJ obviously wants to play with two forwards and Le Fondre is doing well.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He is not a wide player, Pompey used him very sparingly on the right but 80-90% of his football has been off the striker or in central midfield. We shouldn't be trying to reinvent him as a bit of a make do solution on the left wing.

As I said in my verdict he could do with a bit of time in the gym - just knocked off the ball too easily yesterday.

 

[Tony Towner]

I've given it 24 hours before commenting as yesterday would have been an alcohol fuelled rant and with Derby being my biggest game of the season I would have struggled to be objective. I won't repeat what has already been said, but much of yesterday felt like deja vu, stood in the same place watching us make the same mistakes as last year. I said last week that we needed an extra man in midfield as we'd get overrun without it. I assume Wallace was KJ's attempt to be more solid, if it was it was a mistake. I've not seen him play in his natural position so I'm not writing him off, but what he isn't is a left sided midfield player. Either go 442 and have a proper go at them or play 451, don't do some sort of hybrid fudge.

Are we unlucky that we have caught Derby on fire 2 seasons in a row or were they on fire because of the way we approached both matches?
We stood off them and let them dictate play just like we did last year, using Martin as the focal point with others running off him, for me that is just poor management. Iorfa played Russell well when he was out wide, but when he came inside he didn't know whether to pass him on or follow him, the 4th goal came from him being free in the middle.

I don't understand the Henry criticism some of the balls which looked poor did so because neither of our forwards gambled. There were 2/3 which were hit along the ground 5/6 yds out but both Afobe and ALF didn't attack the box

Jason Shackell must have a sore head today the amount of times he headed it away. If we want to hoof the ball up field then get a forward in on loan whose game suits it. ALF is never going to win the ball in the air against seasoned Championship players like him.

Much as Derby were the superior team the second and third goals were gifts, which has already been covered. Jamie Carragher did a good piece on MNF last year about players on the post for corners, the basis of which was basically those that bang on about it don't know what they are talking about and having two extra defenders to mark men or zones is much more effective as long as they do their jobs correctly. Whatever your view about men on posts conceding straight from a corner after a penalty save is criminal. I've not seen a replay but it looked to me that after giving away a soft penalty and getting out of jail for it that Batth then lost Johnson for the corner, it was the opposite end to me though so perhaps incorrect. Didn't Johnson score from a corner against us 6 months ago as well?

Both our goals were very well taken, it's a shame ALF's wasn't a more important one as it deserved more celebration than the half hearted cheer you get when you make the score 4-2.