Climate Change Debate

[Johnny75]

I was kind of expecting that ridiculous one in France (Paris probably), but yeah, I’d avoid that shuriken-lookin’ death trap if it meant an extra hour.

The Arc de Triomphe?

That's not that bad.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

standard roundabout, just big with eight lanes

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

dont ever go to a Swindon Town game

Advice I wish I had before Boxing Day 1998.

Wet doesn't cover it and we lost in the last minute

 

[Alan]

Advice I wish I had before Boxing Day 1998.

Wet doesn't cover it and we lost in the last minute

The list of crimes done by roundabouts grows longer…

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

And the Wolves fans were on the uncovered Stratton Bank. Drenchio.

 

[BillyDee]

As someone who (briefly) lived there, just don't ever go to Swindon...

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I lived round there for six years. Faringdon and Highworth. No way I was ever living in Swindon itself.

 

[sycophantia]

A standard roundabout is a thing of beauty and a real boon to traffic flow if used correctly.

 

[Sniffer]

I wish they’d stop putting traffic lights on them which operate for 24 hours a day. I can understand it at peak times but there’s nothing worse being held up at lights several times on the same island when there’s precious little other traffic around.

 

[leedswolf]

This is the daddy of them all. 'Crazy' roundabout in Doha, Qatar. I first negotiated this in 1996 and was lucky to get through it unscathed.

 

[leedswolf]

The Arc de Triomphe?

That's not that bad.

Yeah, it's a straightforward roundabout with massive traffic volumes. I remember first traversing it in 1987 and the traffic just seemed to sort itself out.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I found driving through Paris not really too bad.

Bordeaux on the other hand was hair raising stuff.

 

[The Bear]

I wish they’d stop putting traffic lights on them which operate for 24 hours a day. I can understand it at peak times but there’s nothing worse being held up at lights several times on the same island when there’s precious little other traffic around.

Similar thing happens here in Burton. We have two bridges across the Trent, and one of them is next to a load of retail outlets. So naturally they've put pedestrian crossings on both sides of the island for shoppers to use. But during rush hour when half the town's traffic is trying to flow through the island, it causes havoc stopping and starting, a gridlocked island, and very long queues to get through.

 

[leedswolf]

Similar thing happens here in Burton. We have two bridges across the Trent, and one of them is next to a load of retail outlets. So naturally they've put pedestrian crossings on both sides of the island for shoppers to use. But during rush hour when half the town's traffic is trying to flow through the island, it causes havoc stopping and starting, a gridlocked island, and very long queues to get through.

Those pesky pedestrians eh?

 

[lemonjelly]

There's a roundabout on my route to work. They developed nearby with a retail park.
Despite "keep clear" sections being clearly marked on the road, almost every driver ignores it, blocking traffic, causing long tailbacks & much anger/frustration.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

So, "roundabout" or "island"?

Is there a distinction?

 

[EpsomWolf]

A word of caution as we find ourselves tripping over each other in gushy support of all projects environmentally conscious. Take time to have a read about the Cambridge Guided Busway, which was considered the best conversion type of the 16 mile stretch of the derelict former railway line that ran St Ives to Cambridge alongside the heavily congested A14.

No surprises to know the project ran hugely over budget and over schedule.
No surprises to know the council who assured alarmed tax payers that ALL overrun costs would be covered in the claim against constructor BAM Nuttall eventually settled in a CONFIDENTIAL out of court settlement.
No surprises to learn even before the overrun settlement was agreed, there were cracks in the concrete beams appearing with repair costs estimated to up to 160 million pounds resulting in another legal dispute.
No surprises to learn the council who assured alarmed tax payers that ALL repair costs would be covered in the claim against the constructor BAM Nuttall eventually settled in another CONFIDENTIAL out of court settlement.
No surprises to learn with a white elephant at their mercy, bus operator Stagecoach exploits its advantages and forces the council to SUBSIDISE every journey or will pull out as not viable.
No surprise to learn project PR falls over itself to present passenger numbers as success and spin only on environmental benefits.

Oh, we’ve also got the current £1.6 million legal costs as the council fight claims regarding the deaths of those killed on the busway that are brought against them, but hey, let’s just try and brush that small matter aside. There is plenty more but I think that’s enough to be going on with for the time being.

So essentially, no one will EVER know the catastrophic costs related to this. Many believe with the ongoing maintenance costs the actual overall cost-per-passenger journey can only ever go up. There are calls to cut the losses and abort or convert the project to something else, but the rewards to Stagecoach, the maintenance contractor and the need of all parties to hide the true costs mean we will all pay for this indefinitely. Just remember that the next time you read the spin about passenger numbers or environmental benefits boys and girls. It has been said it would be cheaper to fly every passenger in by helicopter, although I suspect the analysis suggesting providing each customer with a free taxi service would’ve been less costly somewhat more accurate.

No surprises either Cambridge as a left-leaning City with some very influential academics was at the was at the forefront of projects like this and the aforementioned Dutch roundabout debacle also, but take that as a warning of what happens when you’re convinced you need to head in a certain direction and take your eye off the ball. It’s all coming to a town near you.

I’ve always said they could make a film about all of that but honestly guys, you couldn’t make this shit up.

From CEN 2017:

'Flawed' busway scheme is £127 million over budget - but where did it all go wrong?​

The busway is full of defects say building experts, the cost of additional repair work could reach a staggering £160 million.

The county council is facing calls to launch an investigation into the 'flawed' busway project, after repair costs push the scheme a staggering £127 million over budget.

Smarter Cambridge Transport says the review should be carried out independently of any legal action Cambridgeshire County Council take against busway contractors BAM Nuttall to recoup repair costs.

Flaws in the scheme include subsidence, which means 50 per cent of the shallow foundations will need to be rebuilt, cracks in the concrete beams and water ingress. This has lead to bumpy and uneven tracks which the authors say raises "catastrophic" safety concerns.

The true cost​

Once the £36.5 million repairs are carried out the true cost of the busway will reach more than £200 million, way above the £73 million the scheme was originally expected to cost.

An independent report by Smarter Cambridge Transport into the busway's defects reads: "Local taxpayers will have to foot any future bill and suffer the disruption and loss of amenity while further repairs are carried out. Therefore, any remedial action must resolve all design issues now.

"This will entail closing sections of the busway for extended periods, during which buses will have to be routed onto other roads. The lowest cost estimate, based on work being carried out proactively, is £36.5m. The cost rises to over £160m if repairs are carried out reactively.

"There may be a high risk of future structural failure of the busway. In particular, the risk of a catastrophic failure of the busway, which could lead to deaths or serious injuries... possibly within five years. This would create additional, currently unquantified, liabilities for the County Council and further prolonged periods of closure."

BBC this year:

Cambridgeshire busway's true legal costs remain a secret

About £25m has been spent on legal disputes, but the real cost to the taxpayer remains undisclosed.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Alan]

I wish they’d stop putting traffic lights on them which operate for 24 hours a day. I can understand it at peak times but there’s nothing worse being held up at lights several times on the same island when there’s precious little other traffic around.

I thought the whole idea of a roundabout was to not have lights? Otherwise it’s just a donut shaped intersection?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

A lot of bigger roundabouts have lights to allow traffic to enter the circulation.

 

[Tredman]

A word of caution as we find ourselves tripping over each other in gushy support of all projects environmentally conscious. Take time to have a read about the Cambridge Guided Busway, which was considered the best conversion type of the 16 mile stretch of the derelict former railway line that ran St Ives to Cambridge alongside the heavily congested A14.

No surprises to know the project ran hugely over budget and over schedule.
No surprises to know the council who assured alarmed tax payers that ALL overrun costs would be covered in the claim against constructor BAM Nuttall eventually settled in a CONFIDENTIAL out of court settlement.
No surprises to learn even before the overrun settlement was agreed, there were cracks in the concrete beams appearing with repair costs estimated to up to 160 million pounds resulting in another legal dispute.
No surprises to learn the council who assured alarmed tax payers that ALL repair costs would be covered in the claim against the constructor BAM Nuttall eventually settled in another CONFIDENTIAL out of court settlement.
No surprises to learn with a white elephant at their mercy, bus operator Stagecoach exploits its advantages and forces the council to SUBSIDISE every journey or will pull out as not viable.
No surprise to learn project PR falls over itself to present passenger numbers as success and spin only on environmental benefits.

Oh, we’ve also got the current £1.6 million legal costs as the council fight claims regarding the deaths of those killed on the busway that are brought against them, but hey, let’s just try and brush that small matter aside. There is plenty more but I think that’s enough to be going on with for the time being.

So essentially, no one will EVER know the catastrophic costs related to this. Many believe with the ongoing maintenance costs the actual overall cost-per-passenger journey can only ever go up. There are calls to cut the losses and abort or convert the project to something else, but the rewards to Stagecoach, the maintenance contractor and the need of all parties to hide the true costs mean we will all pay for this indefinitely. Just remember that the next time you read the spin about passenger numbers or environmental benefits boys and girls. It has been said it would be cheaper to fly every passenger in by helicopter, although I suspect the analysis suggesting providing each customer with a free taxi service would’ve been less costly somewhat more accurate.

No surprises either Cambridge as a left-leaning City with some very influential academics was at the was at the forefront of projects like this and the aforementioned Dutch roundabout debacle also, but take that as a warning of what happens when you’re convinced you need to head in a certain direction and take your eye off the ball. It’s all coming to a town near you.

I’ve always said they could make a film about all of that but honestly guys, you couldn’t make this shit up.

From CEN 2017:

'Flawed' busway scheme is £127 million over budget - but where did it all go wrong?​

The busway is full of defects say building experts, the cost of additional repair work could reach a staggering £160 million.

The county council is facing calls to launch an investigation into the 'flawed' busway project, after repair costs push the scheme a staggering £127 million over budget.

Smarter Cambridge Transport says the review should be carried out independently of any legal action Cambridgeshire County Council take against busway contractors BAM Nuttall to recoup repair costs.

Flaws in the scheme include subsidence, which means 50 per cent of the shallow foundations will need to be rebuilt, cracks in the concrete beams and water ingress. This has lead to bumpy and uneven tracks which the authors say raises "catastrophic" safety concerns.

The true cost​

Once the £36.5 million repairs are carried out the true cost of the busway will reach more than £200 million, way above the £73 million the scheme was originally expected to cost.

An independent report by Smarter Cambridge Transport into the busway's defects reads: "Local taxpayers will have to foot any future bill and suffer the disruption and loss of amenity while further repairs are carried out. Therefore, any remedial action must resolve all design issues now.

"This will entail closing sections of the busway for extended periods, during which buses will have to be routed onto other roads. The lowest cost estimate, based on work being carried out proactively, is £36.5m. The cost rises to over £160m if repairs are carried out reactively.

"There may be a high risk of future structural failure of the busway. In particular, the risk of a catastrophic failure of the busway, which could lead to deaths or serious injuries... possibly within five years. This would create additional, currently unquantified, liabilities for the County Council and further prolonged periods of closure."

BBC this year:

Cambridgeshire busway's true legal costs remain a secret

About £25m has been spent on legal disputes, but the real cost to the taxpayer remains undisclosed.

www.bbc.co.uk

TLDR - contractors are shit therefore we should pipe down about climate change.