Ched Evans + Adam Johnson court cases

[The Bear]

What has condemned is him knowing the girl's age and continuing regardless. That is why it is grooming and why it is indefensible, whether you believe our Age Of Consent rules are appropriate or not.

Completely agree 100%. Well maybe not totally on the grooming definition but that's another argument.

As soon as he knows she is 15 that is the end of it. Her actions are irrelevant. She could be wearing a "come and get it" sign and still it wouldn't in any way be mitigating.

In terms of it being a punishable offence I agree. In terms of sentencing I don't agree at all. I firmly believe her actions should be taken into account in mitigation. Otherwise what's the point of having a trial?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

If he had the balls to plead guilty there wouldn't have been one. I think you are absolutely struggling with the concept that this, like many others, is a strict liability offence. As soon as he admits he knew her age that is it. Over. Finit.

State of mind is completely irrelevant on either side.

 

[The Bear]

Problem with that Bear is who decides - then opens any decision to appeals because others don't agree with that view of the individuals

Paddy's post says it as clearly as it could be - Johnson knew the rules and thought he could get away with it

Who decides should be a panel of qualified people who take a look at all of the above I mentioned and decide whether mitigation in sentencing is warranted. This would be based on the actions, ages and emotional/sexual maturity of everyone involved.

I don't think that is unreasonable to at least investigate and understand why the relationship happened and who was encouraging who and to what degree on either side.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Who encouraged who is irrelevant!!! God, how hard is it to get that point over to you?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

How do you define someone's sexual maturity?

 

[The Bear]

If he had the balls to plead guilty there wouldn't have been one. I think you are absolutely struggling with the concept that this, like many others, is a strict liability offence. As soon as he admits he knew her age that is it. Over. Finit.

That's fair enough. He should have been pleading guilty as it is quite clearly an offence.

 

[Freddeno]

Only way by ID, but then again..they can be fake too

 

[Lycan]

There was a paedophile at my place of work who abused and raped a girl for 3 years starting when she was 4 and he got 6 years as well. Doesn't seem to add up really.

 

[The Bear]

How do you define someone's sexual maturity?

I'd guess good indicators would be age, physical maturity, actions taken when presented with the possibility of a physical relationship, emotional response to said relationship and other further investigation.

In cases where someone pleads insanity or mental instability that is assessed to see whether it is open to mitigation of the offence.

 

[The Bear]

Who encouraged who is irrelevant!!! God, how hard is it to get that point over to you?

In terms of an offence being committed yes. In terms of mitigation for sentencing I don't agree.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

How do you define someone's sexual maturity?

Well, you could have a hastily arranged panel of so-called experts. Or you could have an age of consent and the onus sitting on the elder party.

I mean, surely the entire population knows the age of consent in this country.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

In terms of an offence being committed yes. In terms of mitigation for sentencing I don't agree.

Yes it is. Jesus christ Bear. I cannot believe this.

She is legally A CHILD. End of story. Plus, have you read the sentencing remarks that plainly show that this was grooming from one side responded to by the victim who was infatuated with HER HERO. If anything, the attitude should be an agitating factor.

 

[Alan]

There was a paedophile at my place of work who abused and raped a girl for 3 years starting when she was 4 and he got 6 years as well. Doesn't seem to add up really.

The only sort of case where the death penalty crosses my mind.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

There was a paedophile at my place of work who abused and raped a girl for 3 years starting when she was 4 and he got 6 years as well. Doesn't seem to add up really.

That is because your workmate got far too little rather than Johnson has been treated harshly. If it was rape of a 4 year old he should have been looking at life.

 

[Alan]

Yes it is. Jesus christ Bear. I cannot believe this.

She is legally A CHILD. End of story. Plus, have you read the sentencing remarks that plainly show that this was grooming from one side responded to by the victim who was infatuated with HER HERO. If anything, the attitude should be an agitating factor.

I can see Bear's argument being made in a similar case (still erroneously, to be sure), but the fact that Johnson clearly indicated in his messages to the girl that they needed to keep their involvement a secret clearly shows that he was aware of the nature of their actions.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, Johnson's position as a "star" player on the girl's favorite team gave him a certain amount of power over her that more or less renders whatever actions the girl may have taken to be completely moot.

 

[The Bear]

Yes it is. Jesus christ Bear. I cannot believe this.

She is legally A CHILD. End of story. Plus, have you read the sentencing remarks that plainly show that this was grooming from one side responded to by the victim who was infatuated with HER HERO. If anything, the attitude should be an agitating factor.

This sort of amoral attitude is where you get people committing horrible acts and because it's not against the law they argue they are in the right.

Not so long ago in America I could murder my wife legally if I caught her in the act of infidelity. In eastern countries people have their hands chopped off for stealing, or raped women get put in jail as the person in the wrong. But I guess in your black and white world THAT'S THE LAW so is completely acceptable.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It is nothing like that. Don't be so bloody dense.

 

[Alan]

This sort of amoral attitude is where you get people committing horrible acts and because it's not against the law they argue they are in the right.

Not so long ago in America I could murder my wife legally if I caught her in the act of infidelity. In eastern countries people have their hands chopped off for stealing, or raped women get put in jail as the person in the wrong. But I guess in your black and white world THAT'S THE LAW so is completely acceptable.

Not really the same, though, is it? Those scenarios advocate severe (sometimes undue) punishment for perpetrators. You are advocating to remove a protection from a victim.

 

[Lycan]

That is because your workmate got far too little rather than Johnson has been treated harshly. If it was rape of a 4 year old he should have been looking at life.

Yeah, I agree. He was in remand for just under a year as well, that counts towards his sentence doesn't it?

 

[The Bear]

It is nothing like that. Don't be so bloody dense.

It's an extreme example to make a point about morality of the law and encouraging investigation of to why and how an offence happened rather than just handing out flat punishments like a NIP for motoring offences.