Beer

[machin05]

Not really a fair comparison. Cloudwater will have bought equipment and spent a lot on R&D when starting up and not selling much, infrastructure costs a lot of money! Marstons have been running a fair while so their start up costs will have been absorbed by now.

Amazon made an eye-watering $800m loss in their first 3 years.

I know, I was being over simplistic. It was more to demonstrate that there's only one type of brewery that is able to post huge profits and it's not the ones taking up residence in railway arches and industrial estates.

 

[Johnny75]

I think Titanic Brewery is too small to be classed as a mass market brewery. Joules too.

Both brew great drinks IMO.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I wasn't criticising, but mass market beer, by definition is brewed for profit. If it's open mindedness that concerns you, then you really should look past the price tage of certain craft beers before forming an opinion.

Fair comment, and yes I do think that craft beers are overpriced, and I have tried a few craft beers, some good, some not so good. Also even the micro breweries are there to make money, so albeit on a much smaller scale, making a profit is what they are in it for.

I suppose we will never agree on this, but the constant dismissal on here of certain beers (and usually ones that I enjoy) is what often makes me think of a certain term to describe some of the contributors to this thread.

 

[Johnny75]

Don't you think people should dismiss beer as garbage if they think it is?

 

[Johnny75]

I know, I was being over simplistic. It was more to demonstrate that there's only one type of brewery that is able to post huge profits and it's not the ones taking up residence in railway arches and industrial estates.

There's a difference between profits and making a living for yourself though. I wouldn't think the bellend who runs Brewdog or the guys that run Magic Rock and Cloudwater are doing it for free. They could be paying themselves very handsome wages for all we know.

I can't imagine there are many brewers earning a decent wage.

 

[machin05]

http://beernouveau.co.uk/costs-quality-again-and-that-elusive-profit/

http://cloudwaterbrew.co/blog/on-the-values-of-beer

http://hardknott.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/looking-forward.html

Read those pieces if you think craft beer is over priced.

 

[machin05]

There's a difference between profits and making a living for yourself though. I wouldn't think the bellend who runs Brewdog or the guys that run Magic Rock and Cloudwater are doing it for free. They could be paying themselves very handsome wages for all we know.

I can't imagine there are many brewers earning a decent wage.

The head dude at Cloudwater drives a beat-up Mk1 Toyota Prius, so I wouldn't imagine he's raking it in, tbh.

 

[b3h]

Hipster

 

[Langers]

I suppose we will never agree on this, but the constant dismissal on here of certain beers (and usually ones that I enjoy) is what often makes me think of a certain term to describe some of the contributors to this thread.

Why can't people disagree with you? No one has ever said you're not allowed to enjoy certain beers, but that's not to say everyone has to.

And in the ones you listed above, Iceberg is bloody lovely.

 

[Langers]

Anyone else use Untappd?

Yep. Several of us on here. Machin uses up half the bandwidth of the West Midlands on it too.

 

[machin05]

Anyone else use Untappd?

Yep - machin05 is my username.

 

[Johnny75]

http://beernouveau.co.uk/costs-quality-again-and-that-elusive-profit/

http://cloudwaterbrew.co/blog/on-the-values-of-beer

http://hardknott.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/looking-forward.html

Read those pieces if you think craft beer is over priced.

I think they make valid points but there are things they can do to get more funding and also expand. Brewdog are the poster boys for this and they do it incredibly well.

 

[Johnny75]

Iceberg is bloody lovely.

Brewed at a shit hole in Boslem too. Certainly not a large brewery either although Dave Bott and family have done a great job and know how to run what is essentially a small business well.

 

[machin05]

I think they make valid points but there are things they can do to get more funding and also expand. Brewdog are the poster boys for this and they do it incredibly well.

Their core range has suffered as part of that expansion though. I think a lot of breweries really don't want to follow in Brewdog's footsteps, tbh. I think they're seen as too corporate and in it for the money. A lot of craft breweries are happy to make enough to survive, pay their staff fairly and invest any profits into expanding to satisfy increased demand.

Cloudwater have a lot of respect for Brewdog and Thornbridge for being very successful in getting more people into craft beer, however that's not what their MO is. They want to make the best fresh, hoppy beer possible. Good enough to rival some of the best in America. You can't do that AND be Brewdog at the same time.

 

[machin05]

Brewed at a shit hole in Boslem too. Certainly not a large brewery either although Dave Bott and family have done a great job and know how to run what is essentially a small business well.

I think you're making a point that isn't being argued against here!

 

[Langers]

I think you're making a point that isn't being argued against here!

Doesn't mean we can't argue with him anyway.

 

[Johnny75]

Their core range has suffered as part of that expansion though. I think a lot of breweries really don't want to follow in Brewdog's footsteps, tbh. I think they're seen as too corporate and in it for the money. A lot of craft breweries are happy to make enough to survive, pay their staff fairly and invest any profits into expanding to satisfy increased demand.

Cloudwater have a lot of respect for Brewdog and Thornbridge for being very successful in getting more people into craft beer, however that's not what they're MO is. They want to make the best fresh, hoppy beer possible. Good enough to rival some of the best in America. You can't do that AND be Brewdog at the same time.

That isn't quite what I'm saying. Brewdog raise money very well and rather than complain about expansion they welcome it, raise the money for it and move forward. It's not to everybody's taste but they do put out very good beer across all their ranges and aren't afraid to price accordingly.

Cloudwater produce some of the best beer on the planet and I have no problem paying for it as I think it is worth it. Different MO as you say, however, don't complain about the price if you are producing only high end product. Price it accordingly. If it is as high end as they want to be they should have no problem achieving their goals. It shrinks your market as you alienate those that can't afford/ don't want to pay for a premium product but then they knew that already when they placed this product in the market place.

Some craft breweries can't achieve Cloudwater standards and so automatically disadvantage themselves as people wont pay high prices for product that simply isn't premium, that's life. I sympahise with the Hardknott guy and shitty customers are the worst type, but sometimes you have to change and he comes across as somebody who doesn't want to let go and it will kill his business if he doesn't.

 

[Johnny75]

Doesn't mean we can't argue with him anyway.

Seems appropriate:

 

[Langers]

:icon_lol:

That and Partridge_shrug.gif simply can't be overused.

 

[Jinky]

Oh don't get me wrong, if I had a choice of any Cloudwater offering against a Banks's Amber, I'd pick Cloudwater every day of the week. Equally, I don't actually mind the Amber, so for 90p a bottle, I usually chuck a couple of bottles in the shopping basket.