Wolves 3 - Bristol 3 the more excitement in one game than the whole of last season ve

[YoungWolf]

There's literally so much data out there, for every player in every game in every league, it makes sense to collect this data and create models designed to give managers an extra edge over their competitors. Of course, it won't get it right all the time, trends are there to be bucked and data gets skewed, but in the majority of the time, once you have enough data, trends will adhere to a glide path over time and using that info can help teams compete and not get caught out when a manager changes shape or they go down to 10 men.

I read somewhere recently that Man City use analytical KPI's to determine bonuses, so if a player does not complete a certain number of passes per season etc, they lose out on a performance bonus. I would imagine that this will become the norm in football soon enough as it is becoming the norm across other industries.

Agree with this, it won't ever be perfect (which is good, as otherwise football would become boring very quickly!) but it will definitely become the norm in clubs within time. Some clubs have mistaken it for moneyball I think, but it can be used in so many different areas (opposition scouting, recruitment, developing the team's style, developing players) that could give teams a huge advantaged if embraced properly and used in conjunction with video analysis, coaches, sports scientists etc!

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

Analytics would be the hard evidence that Nuno could have used to bin Doherty if he so wished!

 

[Wolf Hunting]

If you look at the match or player stats in the MSL the width and detail is enormous. makes Sky look like shit. So looking at that (I now and again see how Kevin Doyle does against teams) it seems that a significant amount of detail already exists and impressive it is too.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Do they have stats for "ran towards the corner flag, sort of half held the ball up and fell over"?

 

[YoungWolf]

:icon_lol:

 

[Johnny75]

Agree with this, it won't ever be perfect (which is good, as otherwise football would become boring very quickly!) but it will definitely become the norm in clubs within time. Some clubs have mistaken it for moneyball I think, but it can be used in so many different areas (opposition scouting, recruitment, developing the team's style, developing players) that could give teams a huge advantaged if embraced properly and used in conjunction with video analysis, coaches, sports scientists etc!

I think you have to use a combination of both. Gone are the days of the back of a fag packet stuff for scouting teams and there is a more reasoned approach that data can be used for. I think you need to definitely watch the games to see why though.

The biggest problem with the data is there is only ever going to be one set of data for each game which is a small sample and any trend within that game structure as teams don't play against the same formations game on game and will adjust according, add to that all players have different unique attributes. The trends just have too many variables in them as to use the youtube analogy from DDW it would be like comparing a user having a different ad on a different video every time and then youtube putting up a different vid than they expected to come on because humans are variable. Oh and that vid can change at some point during the time the user is watching Youtube as well, to another random video they know nothing about. There would be no credible trend as it would be completely random.

Where you draw the line at simulation is another thing and maybe the data should be used to get a generic picture of games much like the pass and heat map guy does and the old fashioned scouts look for the decision making attributes.

I'm not against it at all and I'm all for mathematical modelling in conjunction with other forms of scouting but the clubs don't seem to have people who actually that clued up on how to do any of this right now so it may take a while!

As for pass completion stats, they're utter nonsense as are shots on target, crosses completed and tackles made as without a context of where, when and how any of those things turned out they are totally useless.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rust-arsene-wenger-army-statdna-data-analysts

This is what Arsenal have been using. Fair to say it hasn't worked.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

As for pass completion stats, they're utter nonsense as are shots on target, crosses completed and tackles made as without a context of where, when and how any of those things turned out they are totally useless.

You have to use them in correlation with actually watching it. I thought Saiss had a good game on Saturday then saw his stats the day after and thought "Wow, I never really picked up on it at the time but yeah, he really did barely give it away".

Just saying "95% pass completion" when you haven't seen the game is worthless to me. Whereas a game like baseball you can read more by pure numbers.

 

[Alan]

I feel I should amend my Bonatini rating a bit: I'll bump him up to a 6 from a 5 as I didn't recognize until watching the highlights just now that he got a touch on Cavaleiro's corner that led to Jota's goal. Good flick on, it was.

 

[Trips]

I feel I should amend my Bonatini rating a bit: I'll bump him up to a 6 from a 5 as I didn't recognize until watching the highlights just now that he got a touch on Cavaleiro's corner that led to Jota's goal. Good flick on, it was.

Very generous :icon_lol:

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I feel I should amend my Bonatini rating a bit: I'll bump him up to a 6 from a 5 as I didn't recognize until watching the highlights just now that he got a touch on Cavaleiro's corner that led to Jota's goal. Good flick on, it was.

Should have been another assist as well as Jota should have buried the one that he caned against the bar. Lovely knock down.

 

[Alan]

Very generous :icon_lol:

My feelings about Leo may be the minority here but I'm not without some integrity!

 

[Alan]

Should have been another assist as well as Jota should have buried the one that he caned against the bar. Lovely knock down.

Maybe I'd have to watch it again but in real time I thought it was a lucky piece of poor control. Could be that my opinion of him had already soured by that point, however.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

FS Alan :icon_lol:

He literally chests it right down into his path. It's textbook target man play.



3:10 in.

 

[VanWolfie]

Maybe I'd have to watch it again but in real time I thought it was a lucky piece of poor control. Could be that my opinion of him had already soured by that point, however.

Alan,

If it were poor control, it would never have fallen so nicely for Jota, and yes, Jota should have buried that chance, he went for power instead of accuracy.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

I imagine for scouting purposes you'd use the stats for more headline figures, pass completion, goals, assists, whatever else and then you'd start actively scouting them to pick up on the points like you mention.

Never would you use these. You woukd watch positional awareness, touch, how comfortable on the ball he looks, passing would be where he passed, did he launch it every time even when had passes on, did he make himself available to receive the ball.

 

[VanWolfie]

Everything is measurable, getting accurate results and being able to use them going forward is what makes the difference.

I agree with the latter sentiment but question the first "Everything is measurable". Perhaps you have not heard of the philosopher's statement: "What one measures is important; but not everything that is important is measurable."

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Never would you use these. You woukd watch positional awareness, touch, how comfortable on the ball he looks, passing would be where he passed, did he launch it every time even when had passes on, did he make himself available to receive the ball.

So you'd never go and watch a player because he'd scored well at his current club?

 

[AndyWolves]

I agree with the latter sentiment but question the first "Everything is measurable". Perhaps you have not heard of the philosopher's statement: "What one measures is important; but not everything that is important is measurable."

Sums it up nicely for me

 

[Boozad]

Bonatini was excellent again on Tuesday, the work he does is first class and he carries out his role selflessly. I was getting really pissed off with the "Gerrin the box" and "Fucking useless" shouts behind me in the North Bank on Tuesday, he was playing really well and had already scored, but I suppose that doesn't really matter.

Alan, I don't know how much of the games you're seeing, but if you watch his input for 90 minutes you realise how pivotal he is when we go forward. He creates space for the likes of Cav and Jota to do their thing (imagine how much space Costa will have when he's back) and pulls defenders all over the place. His strength on the ball, holdup play and layoffs are key. He's never going to be the type to light up a game or smash a blistering hattrick but technically he's superb and is a big part of the way we play.