Wolves 3 - Bristol 3 the more excitement in one game than the whole of last season ve

[Alan]

Bonatini was excellent again on Tuesday, the work he does is first class and he carries out his role selflessly. I was getting really pissed off with the "Gerrin the box" and "$#@!ing useless" shouts behind me in the North Bank on Tuesday, he was playing really well and had already scored, but I suppose that doesn't really matter.

Alan, I don't know how much of the games you're seeing, but if you watch his input for 90 minutes you realise how pivotal he is when we go forward. He creates space for the likes of Cav and Jota to do their thing (imagine how much space Costa will have when he's back) and pulls defenders all over the place. His strength on the ball, holdup play and layoffs are key. He's never going to be the type to light up a game or smash a blistering hattrick but technically he's superb and is a big part of the way we play.

I paid out the £5 to watch the full match yesterday and just wasn't impressed with him.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But you do acknowledge it's not "poor control" that leads to Jota hitting the bar?

And that would have been one goal, two assists. Leaving aside all the other good stuff he did (there was a lot)

 

[Johnny75]

So you'd never go and watch a player because he'd scored well at his current club?

That and assists are true stats whereas you wouldn't go and see a player because of headers won or clean sheets or pass completion.

Glasgow is right about his context but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for stats.

 

[AndyWolves]

Statistics are like mini-skirts, they don't reveal everything

 

[Alan]

But you do acknowledge it's not "poor control" that leads to Jota hitting the bar?

And that would have been one goal, two assists. Leaving aside all the other good stuff he did (there was a lot)

I can concede the build up to the Jota chance, yeah.

Still don't think he was all that good. I certainly didn't see him contributing to our play in the way that it's being purported he did. The two incidents involving Jota are more positive but I found myself at multiple times on Tuesday thinking that he looked static without the ball and didn't challenge nearly enough in the air.

To wit, I think my overriding thought about him was "is that it?"

 

[MARKakaJIM]

That and assists are true stats whereas you wouldn't go and see a player because of headers won or clean sheets or pass completion.

Glasgow is right about his context but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for stats.

Perhaps my criteria I used for examples weren't the best but I was guessing that most current scouting use of stats would've been to try and narrow down a the field of prospective players before committing resource to going and watching the games to get a better picture. It must be a bit awkward in this day and age with football now so widespread getting chance to have a good look at everyone but with the amount of data available from all sorts of games you could potentially use that to try and narrow down a shortlist to concentrate your efforts on.

Stats or not stats, that's got to be a difficult decision in any recruitment I suppose, trying to whittle down the list and make sure you're focusing on the right people, not overlooking anyone with strong potential and not wasting your time on people who'll ultimately be useless. I don't know if football being so mainstream would make it easier or worse, I suppose it's very easy to watch a lot of football now via television for preliminary judgement but then at the same time you could easily be lead to ignoring some obscure player from some backwater league because he's not on TV every week whereas someone playing in a major European league would be.

This post has ended up being a bit all over the place, I would've thought you could use a stats based approach early doors to both widen the net to players you know very little about but also weed out some choices which initially seem obvious only to fall flat upon on further investigation, though obviously in either case you'd want some 'old school' boots on the ground scouting to back it up.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

I have now watched the highlights over 20 times and if Leo didn't purposely chest that ball down to Jota, I have never farted, and trust me that is never ever likely to be the case especially as I am an old git now.
Sorry Alan, if you can't see what Leo did, just stop watching, or rather watching and then typing.

 

[Alan]

Cheers.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Perhaps my criteria I used for examples weren't the best but I was guessing that most current scouting use of stats would've been to try and narrow down a the field of prospective players before committing resource to going and watching the games to get a better picture. It must be a bit awkward in this day and age with football now so widespread getting chance to have a good look at everyone but with the amount of data available from all sorts of games you could potentially use that to try and narrow down a shortlist to concentrate your efforts on.

Stats or not stats, that's got to be a difficult decision in any recruitment I suppose, trying to whittle down the list and make sure you're focusing on the right people, not overlooking anyone with strong potential and not wasting your time on people who'll ultimately be useless. I don't know if football being so mainstream would make it easier or worse, I suppose it's very easy to watch a lot of football now via television for preliminary judgement but then at the same time you could easily be lead to ignoring some obscure player from some backwater league because he's not on TV every week whereas someone playing in a major European league would be.

This post has ended up being a bit all over the place, I would've thought you could use a stats based approach early doors to both widen the net to players you know very little about but also weed out some choices which initially seem obvious only to fall flat upon on further investigation, though obviously in either case you'd want some 'old school' boots on the ground scouting to back it up.

I think Leon Clarke is a good example.

On the face of it we wanted to get up from L1 ASAP and we'd just got rid of three strikers so we needed someone else to come on. So you'd think signing the top scorer in the league, purely on numbers, would be a good idea. Of course it wasn't, we all know that.

You need a mix of the two. I welcome the introduction of data but it has to be interspersed with people who know the game giving their opinion. We just blindly went for that one when pretty much everyone here could have told them it would be a disaster.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I can concede the build up to the Jota chance, yeah.

Still don't think he was all that good. I certainly didn't see him contributing to our play in the way that it's being purported he did. The two incidents involving Jota are more positive but I found myself at multiple times on Tuesday thinking that he looked static without the ball and didn't challenge nearly enough in the air.

To wit, I think my overriding thought about him was "is that it?"

I really, really, really don't want to be patronising here but unless you're actually there I don't think you can appreciate what he does for us. TV cameras won't pick it up.

Nathan Blake was the same.

 

[Alan]

I really, really, really don't want to be patronising here but unless you're actually there I don't think you can appreciate what he does for us. TV cameras won't pick it up.

Nathan Blake was the same.

No worries, Dan.

As I say, I'm not unaware that I'm the minority about him at the moment so it's not like I'm going to sit here and say anyone is wrong to like him, per se, I just don't see it myself. As you point out, that could be because I can't watch the games in person and there's no "tactical cam" on WolvesTV.

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

No worries, Dan.

As I say, I'm not unaware that I'm the minority about him at the moment so it's not like I'm going to sit here and say anyone is wrong to like him, per se, I just don't see it myself. As you point out, that could be because I can't watch the games in person and there's no "tactical cam" on WolvesTV.

I think it might be down to how you actually watch and read games. Did you play ball when you were young? Do you watch whoever is on the ball or do you watch how the game develops off the ball. If you watch off the ball, you'll see that Leo draws his markers out, opening space for others to get into. It might be this stuff that you are not seeing and it might be due to how you watch the game.

 

[Alan]

I try to watch more than just the man with the ball as I think movement as a team and off-the-ball positioning are the two most important tactical aspects of the game.

 

[Langers]

I try to watch more than just the man with the ball as I think movement as a team and off-the-ball positioning are the two most important tactical aspects of the game.

Yet you don't rate Bonatini?

Some advice: he wears number 33. #heretohelp

 

[Alan]

:surrendered:

 

[Penk Wolf]

I try to watch more than just the man with the ball as I think movement as a team and off-the-ball positioning are the two most important tactical aspects of the game.

No really that easy to do unless you're at the ground.

 

[Lycan]

I dont think there's much of a difference between being at the ground/watching on WolvesTV. Just a difference of opinions.

 

[Penk Wolf]

I dont think there's much of a difference between being at the ground/watching on WolvesTV. Just a difference of opinions.

Watching players off the ball movement? Really?

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

Watching players off the ball movement? Really?

Ah you can see some movement off the ball on TV, only in the half that the ball is in granted. I was watching Liverpool on tv last night and you could see everytime Henderson got the ball, Salah and Firminho were looking to move into spaces, and any others who were making themselves available were running into the picture on my screen.

 

[Dinowolf]

21 shots, 6 on target, according to BBC Sport. After showing Swansea v Newcastle on Sky at the weekend, there was a discussion about shots-on-target in the PL, and stats. were shown with Swansea the worst side with an average of 6 per game and it was generally agreed that if that were to continue it would be 'relegation form'. We have not been much better and need to be more accurate with our goal efforts or we are going to drop vital points.

We are a far better side this season so far, than we have been for years. However, our frailties were there for all to see on Tuesday.
We have to improve our zonal defending esp. at set pieces, luckily Bristol were just as bad, and we have to put more of our chances away.

The discussion about Bonatini has been interesting and my opinion, FWIW, is that he is a quality player who is poor in the air and is not clinical enough. His scoring has been 'poachers' goals so far and whether that will improve as time goes on is speculative.