Wolves 2-0 Crystal Palace: Verdict Thread

[Carsy]

Do I think Fabio will be good enough to be the main man next season? No.
Will he be happy being back up? No.
Will anyone pay us more than half his fee? No.

Think we are going to have a bit of a problem on our hands.

Might have to loan him out again. Can always make a late decision on Costa towards end of transfer window.

But then he won’t of had a pre season, so will be behind?

Unless you ask him nicely to train with us and do pre season, which I’d imagine he’d kindly tell us to go forth and multiply. He will have other options this summer if he wants to continue playing I’d wager

 

[AndyWolves]

Double jeopardy does provide a loophole to avoid it, no wording I've seen explicitly says one overrides another.

Not for serious foul play.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Not for serious foul play.

Why so certain? Where is your justification?

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

Getting involved but not sure why...

I think double jeopardy did save Johnstone in as much as the referee used that process to only give a yellow card because an attempt to play the ball had been made in the award of the penalty.

However, the referee and VAR again got it very wrong as the decision should have been a straight red card for serious foul play because the challenge warranted it. Once that red card had been given and because the offence took place in the penalty area, a penalty should then have been given. In the same way that if that challenge had been outside of the box then a red should have resulted followed by the awarding of a direct free kick (which ultimately a penalty is).

The mistake here, as we've seen numerous times this season and before, was by a referee making the wrong call in real time. The disgrace is the VAR operator [one of our regular friends I think last night] making an absolutely diabolical call even with the aid of numerous replays.

 

[AndyWolves]

Why so certain? Where is your justification?

Because there is nothing in the laws to say that Serious Foul Play is anything other than a red card.

 

[darlowolf64]

Why so certain? Where is your justification?

Qualified Referee hat on here...

Double Jeopardy is as follows... Defender (or keeper) tries to play the ball but catch the player (or accidental contact, see Jose Sa on Saturday) = penalty and yellow card

Not DJ; Defender deliberately handles the ball to stop a goal-bound shot. Defender (or keeper) makes no attempt to play the ball, just takes out the attacker = straight red card

Not DJ; Reckless or dangerous challenge, or with excessive force = straight red card, wherever that happens on the field of play

 

[AndyWolves]

Imagine if you could get away with a yellow for serious foul play.

Players in on goal who are likely to score would get absolutely smashed by defenders.

 

[PuntsWolf]

But then he won’t of had a pre season, so will be behind?

He can/will have been training with us all summer.

Unless you ask him nicely to train with us and do pre season, which I’d imagine he’d kindly tell us to go forth and multiply. He will have other options this summer if he wants to continue playing I’d wager

Or as you say there’s a better offer. I doubt very much there will be and if he’s given genuine assurances there a place potentially on offer I imagine he will take that. It’s all hypotheticals anyway but I’d just give him the deal as the 3rd striker but I’m biased

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'd give him a deal.

However his form and fitness have really improved from game time, it's likely (and hopeful) that he doesn't actually have too much game time next season - so clearly this likely means he won't be as sharp as he is now and will be of little use.

You'd hope we have already decided on our strategy and quantity for attackers next season.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Because there is nothing in the laws to say that Serious Foul Play is anything other than a red card.

And double jeopardy says an attempt to win the ball in the box doesn't earn a red card. So why does your rule trump mine? Where is the guidance that says that is so?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Qualified Referee hat on here...

Double Jeopardy is as follows... Defender (or keeper) tries to play the ball but catch the player (or accidental contact, see Jose Sa on Saturday) = penalty and yellow card

Not DJ; Defender deliberately handles the ball to stop a goal-bound shot. Defender (or keeper) makes no attempt to play the ball, just takes out the attacker = straight red card

Not DJ; Reckless or dangerous challenge, or with excessive force = straight red card, wherever that happens on the field of play

Have you received direct guidance on the final point? Nothing I've seen online suggests that is a hard and fast rule, could certainly see the merit in such a verdict but it all appears to be down to individual referees to decide the preference based on publicly available information.

 

[pr0sl0]

Fabio is still only 20 years old, which is ridiculously young - personally, I'm not writing him off just yet. He's got a lot of developing to do before we'll really know just how good he actually is.

Time will tell - and IMO it's still too early to predict.

He is still young, but he also doesn't look half the quality of player Neves or Jota were at the same age. They came to us in the Championship and were clearly better than anyone else in the division in their positions. I doubt Silva would stand out there, let alone in the PL.

Youth is what gives him credit in the bank but everything about his current trajectory screams adequate mid-table PL rotation option at best. Yet from what we keep hearing from him and his dad, he's not going to be willing to knuckle down and work if that's all he's offered here or elsewhere, which makes me sceptical of his ability to beat that level of expectation.

 

[darlowolf64]

Have you received direct guidance on the final point? Nothing I've seen online suggests that is a hard and fast rule, could certainly see the merit in such a verdict but it all appears to be down to individual referees to decide the preference based on publicly available information.

It is clearly stated in Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct.

The relevant sections are about 3/4's down the page I'm sharing

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct

IFAB Laws of the Game

www.thefa.com

 

[Carsy]

Qualified Referee hat on here...

Double Jeopardy is as follows... Defender (or keeper) tries to play the ball but catch the player (or accidental contact, see Jose Sa on Saturday) = penalty and yellow card

Not DJ; Defender deliberately handles the ball to stop a goal-bound shot. Defender (or keeper) makes no attempt to play the ball, just takes out the attacker = straight red card

Not DJ; Reckless or dangerous challenge, or with excessive force = straight red card, wherever that happens on the field of play

Based on point 3, it’s a red.

I guess they’ve either not applied the rules properly, or the ref has felt it isn’t reckless or dangerous and is a ‘generic foul’ - which I totally disagree with

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It is clearly stated in Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct.

The relevant sections are about 3/4's down the page I'm sharing

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct

IFAB Laws of the Game

www.thefa.com

That's the website I've been looking on and couldn't find anything that explicitly details the interaction between the different rules and precedents of one over another. Wouldn't be the first time the FA have left the wording open to misinterpretation and possible contentious decisions.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It's been 15 hours....

 

[Langers]

This is actually making me miss the Adama Traore arguments.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's been 15 hours....

It wasn't pretty last night but at this stage you just take the points.

Very much doubt that many people would have said on Christmas Day that we'd be essentially safe with over a month of the season to play. We've got a very, very good manager.

 

[Boozad]

 

[darlowolf64]

That's the website I've been looking on and couldn't find anything that explicitly details the interaction between the different rules and precedents of one over another. Wouldn't be the first time the FA have left the wording open to misinterpretation and possible contentious decisions.

Here is your distinction...

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY; A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play

The Laws of the Game are not subject to "interpretation", you are taught that at grass roots level. The second you start to interpret the Laws, you are not following them. It's why referee mistakes that we've seen this season are so annoying/baffling. If the Saturday or Sunday league referee gets stood down for poor performance and obvious mistakes, why don't the ones in the public eye? The protection they get, no matter how bad they perform, really pisses the low level referees off