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Wolves 1-1 Newcastle: Verdict Thread

Other than Guedes (who I don't think is very good) and possibly Raul, there isn't anyone in that starting XI I'd actively look to replace for this season. We may be doing the latter with Kalajdzic.

So why do we look rubbish?

Join the dots.
Specifically Dan
Unfortunately, this is it in a nutshell.

I'm hoping we click in the next two games, but I'm worried the longer he stays he's going to waste this group of players
Yes, I have the feeling that if we don't end up challenging for Europe come the end of the season, Neves and all the new guys who desperately want to play in Europe, will just fuck off. I really feel this team that's looking pretty good will just dissipate and the time will be gone, the opportunity passed and these guys wasted.
 
Not playing off instinct, being overloaded with information?
I remember playing a round of golf with a Financial director who'd just finished a raft of golf lessons and he was on the tee for about 10 or 12 minutes swinging his club and making little wafts and passes. I said, "Frank, are you going to hit the fucking thing?" and he said, " I can't! I'm trying to remember all the stuff that the golf Pro was telling me, I'm strung up, I just can't hit it, I can hardly move!"
That's us.
 
I agree that I think there’s an overload of tactics and information going on at the moment and our football is being played statistically…
 
You can certainly see the cogs turning whenever we're on the attack, and before you know it the initiative is gone and the opportunities reduced.

Most of the time we're ponderous and joyless going forward, a crime with these players
 
If only the players had brains of their own, curse these infernal robots!
 
Lots of talk about how great this squad is, how they're better than x,y or z on paper, how they're being wasted or how some other manager would do with them but how many of them are legitimately showing that? As bad as any coach might be there should always be some elements of promise that manage to shine through, players should be able to do the odd bit here and there in spite of the worst coaching, if they put their minds to it.

There just doesn't seem to be any understanding at Wolves, players that have been together for years still look like strangers more often than not. You've got people who've spent their entire careers at big clubs and playing for top international sides but they can't pick or time a decent run, they struggle to make good decisions consistently and they're often rattled by fairly timid resistance. Can their collective psyche be so fragile that they all need that level of support and micromanagement to get through a game? They'd surely never be at this level if so.

I was never a big fan of Nuno's brand of football, too slow and conservative for my liking but you can't knock it's effectiveness for the most part. There would've been times I felt he was holding the players back from doing something more expansive but now I don't believe that to be the case. His backs to the wall mentality appeared to give them a comfort blanket under which majority thrived, drawing teams onto them and striking on the counter with the front two or three. Games where that counter attacking plan couldn't come to fruition were a real chore, the team looked more laboured the more of the ball they had an teams invariably found them easy to hold at bay.

This is where I was talking about the issue being bigger than the head coach, we've seen similar issues previously when needing or attempting to be a more dominant side. Nuno tried to change things a bit and that failed, similar when Lage first arrived and again now. So, who is actually steering the ship at club level? Who decides what Fosun want Wolves to be? Whether by hook or crook the squad and Nuno had a symbiotic relationship, the football wasn't by any means the prettiest but it worked. Personally I think it had to change if they really wanted to push up the table, you can't keep playing as the underdog if you want to be one of the top dogs, somewhere along the line you have to put on your big boy pants and assert yourselves.

Do Fosun still want Wolves to be the best football team they can be? They don't appear to have a cohesive plan for achieving such. Newcastle went and got themselves Ashworth to dictate that policy, who do Fosun have? Mendes is perhaps the closest person to having that sort of influence but I can't imagine anyone is thinking he has Wolves best interests at heart. This squad has been predominantly assembled by him or his representatives, is he bringing players primarily to create the best team for Wolves, targeting players who will form a cohesive group with a common style of play or is he just shuffling his deck to boost his bank balance?

If you're not recruiting to a consistent theme how do you pick a manager to best utilise that group? How do you ever expect to recruit a decent coach if they're only ever going to be allowed to oversee Jorge's latest pick and mix?

We've seen other clubs get bought as toys by some very rich boys and at times they've had a tendency to meddle too much, grabbing whichever manager is flavour of the month or bringing in big name players with no clear plan. Fosun started off looking very shrewd with the Gestifute tie in but these days they're not looking that much different to a meddling oligarch, Jorge gives them a fancy name and they throw money at them.

You compare that to the likes of Brighton, they found the man they wanted in Potter and they've stuck with him through some rough patches. They sell some of their big players when required or when it suits but they recruit in line with what he wants the team to be. It may not be glitz, glamour and household names but their team keeps functioning and their brand of football is largely easy on the eye. Similar story at Leeds, despite most people taking a dislike to Marsch he's been backed with what he wanted and so far it's looked like the plan is working out. They've still got a similar mentality to under Bielsa which must help for the players who were there before but they've backed him with players he wanted too and early signs are looking good.

Does anyone think Fosun have such a clear vision for Wolves?
Having spent my working life training and developing teams, its always been a vacuum of logic for me when we all understand the 'whole is greater than the sum of it's parts'. So we have all of these gifted, highly experienced players, played under lots of managers with international, world wide experience running through each team many times over, yet we seem unwilling to, to not pull all of that experience together, we don't tap into all the good things all the collective experiences we have at our disposal, we just seem to ignore it all, block it all off and just listen to what Lage with all his junior, minor league experience has to say.
What a waste of talent.
It confounds me now and always has done.
 
I don’t understand this “lost the dressing room” stuff. Boly is having a bit of a paddy as he wants a move away - you can have one player throw his toys out the pram without it being a squad attitude.

Jonny also played well yesterday. Raul worked hard and has always been partial to a wacky celebration.
Unfortunately the Boly thing isn't the only sign is it? We have had;

- Podence liking tweets at the end of last season which were suggesting he'd leave if Hwang kept getting picked ahead of him.

- Coady with subliminal shots of "I felt something wasn't right and something had changed"

- Saiss with a vague message saying he deserved a better ending

- Ruddy openly saying Lage hasn't got very good man management skills

- Rumors of falling outs with Jimenez and Jonny last season

- MGW not signing a new deal and leaving for a newly promoted team despite Lage making it clear he is an important first team member.

- Boly being named in the squad yesterday and not turning up.


I'm sure someone will go down those points and clear Lage of any blame, and for some of them he might not be, but I'd say there is an accumulation of too many incidents, some involving long serving players that make it hard to ignore. It doesn't seem to be all roses in the dressing room anyway.
 
This the top level so it’s always about fine margins, when your game plan is sit in and hit on the break second half then you run the risk of eventually the fine margins not going your way.
Both sides can claim fine margins there’s absolutely no way we can walk away from yesterday of feeling robbed we weren’t.
It was obvious come the 65-70 minutes that we had lost any control yet it still took 15 minutes for a change to happen.
Going forward we just clunky, very deliberate and predictable.
Really bad thing has become a pattern we’re not good at holding leads and are hopeless at retrieving being behind.
I don’t think it’s down to lack of hard work from Bruno and he’s probably awake at night thinking about our problems.
I think he’s better suited for a lower level and working with players who need more nurturing.
Players at this level just need some gentle guidance and be trusted in their ability.
 
Other than Guedes (who I don't think is very good) and possibly Raul, there isn't anyone in that starting XI I'd actively look to replace for this season. We may be doing the latter with Kalajdzic.

So why do we look rubbish?

Join the dots.
Specifically Dan, why don't you think that Guedes isn't much good?
 
I remember playing a round of golf with a Financial director who'd just finished a raft of golf lessons and he was on the tee for about 10 or 12 minutes swinging his club and making little wafts and passes. I said, "Frank, are you going to hit the fucking thing?" and he said, " I can't! I'm trying to remember all the stuff that the golf Pro was telling me, I'm strung up, I just can't hit it, I can hardly move!"
That's us.
Good analogy - a bit of process (especially in defence) and a lot of instinct (going forwards) is required - too much process and you miss the opportunities that present but then dissipate. Jota and Raul’s counters were very rapid and reactive, and successful.
 
Unfortunately the Boly thing isn't the only sign is it? We have had;

- Podence liking tweets at the end of last season which were suggesting he'd leave if Hwang kept getting picked ahead of him.

- Coady with subliminal shots of "I felt something wasn't right and something had changed"

- Saiss with a vague message saying he deserved a better ending

- Ruddy openly saying Lage hasn't got very good man management skills

- Rumors of falling outs with Jimenez and Jonny last season

- MGW not signing a new deal and leaving for a newly promoted team despite Lage making it clear he is an important first team member.

- Boly being named in the squad yesterday and not turning up.


I'm sure someone will go down those points and clear Lage of any blame, and for some of them he might not be, but I'd say there is an accumulation of too many incidents, some involving long serving players that make it hard to ignore. It doesn't seem to be all roses in the dressing room anyway.

I think the phrase “no smoke without fire” springs to mind.
The Coady statement is the one that jumps of the page, Coady doesn’t strike me as person who’d talk bullshit in the press and says it as it is.
 
Other than Guedes (who I don't think is very good) and possibly Raul, there isn't anyone in that starting XI I'd actively look to replace for this season. We may be doing the latter with Kalajdzic.

So why do we look rubbish?

Join the dots.
I’m not quite as down about yesterday’s game as most. I actually thought it was more enjoyable than virtually all of last seasons home games and packed with incident. Compared to our most recent away game at Newcastle, it was thrill a minute. I also think, because we keep shooting ourselves in the foot by only playing for 45 minutes, that a draw was a fair result with only one team looking like winning it at the end.

Guedes (my reason for replying to DWs post) was, I thought, excellent both with the ball and working hard defensively. Everything Trincao should have been if he had had heart and better physicality. I’m picking him ahead of Podence, Hwang, Traore and Neto (on current form) at the moment.
 
To those of you that think Bruno has a good command over his dressing room - does he strike you at all like he is a manager with any gravitas? Can you seriously listen to a word he says and think thats a) inspirational or 2) a display of a real intelligent football brain?

He's a bullshit merchant, just like his goalkeeping coach who was supposedly revolutionising us from set pieces (we are fucking terrible from set pieces currently).

I'm sure he's a good coach, but he's no leader and he is no manager. He also seems like a real difficult character who can't control his emotions, and has fell out with numerous players now.

The quicker we get rid of him, the less painful it will be.
 
I’m not quite as down about yesterday’s game as most. I actually thought it was more enjoyable than virtually all of last seasons home games and packed with incident. Compared to our most recent away game at Newcastle, it was thrill a minute. I also think, because we keep shooting ourselves in the foot by only playing for 45 minutes, that a draw was a fair result with only one team looking like winning it at the end.

Guedes (my reason for replying to DWs post) was, I thought, excellent both with the ball and working hard defensively. Everything Trincao should have been if he had had heart and better physicality. I’m picking him ahead of Podence, Hwang, Traore and Neto (on current form) at the moment.

Wasn't even better than the last time we played Newcastle at home.
 
Having spent my working life training and developing teams, its always been a vacuum of logic for me when we all understand the 'whole is greater than the sum of it's parts'. So we have all of these gifted, highly experienced players, played under lots of managers with international, world wide experience running through each team many times over, yet we seem unwilling to, to not pull all of that experience together, we don't tap into all the good things all the collective experiences we have at our disposal, we just seem to ignore it all, block it all off and just listen to what Lage with all his junior, minor league experience has to say.
What a waste of talent.
It confounds me now and always has done.
That is the job of a manager.

To come up with the direction, strategy and focus.

He's obviously very bad at communicating those things to his staff and what looks like taking feedback from them too.

He might be a brilliant coach with Guardiola level ideas but if he can't get them across and lead his team of coaches and players he may as well not bother.
 
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Do we have a link to Ruddy questioning his man management? Not doubting it, just I haven’t seen the article and would like to read!

I think Coady maybe wasn’t told of our plan to revert to a back four or his lack of involvement in it, and to me that is wrong from the manager. But you can’t place stock in him and MGW leaving: they’ve both gone to teams who will give them regular, first team, Premier League football. Neither we’re going to be guaranteed starters here.
 
Though for what it’s worth I absolutely would have kept Coady and MGW. I think we look quite thin (well, inexperienced) at CB once one of Kilman or Collins goes down/gets suspended and although it would have been a bomb scare having Conor at the back, it’s a bit of EPL experience which Gomes and Mosquera aren’t going to get any time soon.

I think MGW would have given us something different to the other four in that he can play behind the striker etc and maybe could have given Nunes some rest bite or would have given us a ‘solution’ for certain opposition. I suppose Guedes may be able to execute that role but I don’t know enough about him TBH.
 
That is the job of a manager.

To come up with the direction, strategy and focus.

He's obviously very bad at communicating those things to his staff and what looks like taking feedback from them too.

He might be a brilliant coach with Guardiola level ideas but if he can't get them across and lead his team of coaches and players he may as well not bother.

Lol.
 
Specifically Dan, why don't you think that Guedes isn't much good?
I can't see a single stand out attribute from him (and I didn't want him anyway as he's always looked rancid when I've seen him play for Portugal).

Not especially quick, can't cross particularly well, doesn't get in dangerous positions (this could be tactical I suppose), not great at beating a man with skill, not sure he's going to end up being a particularly clinical finisher. I think we could have done better for the money, I don't see anyone being blown away by his impact in 3/6/12 months time.
 
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