Wolves 0 Watford 2; The back down to earth with a bump, Verdict Thread

[Alan]

To be honest I would need to know the definition of big miss that they use on the site. The fact he has 7 and the rest of the entire team don't have that between them says enough for me. He is great at link up but needs to improve his finishing. Simples

I wouldn't be half surprised if the rest of the team don't have 7 attempts on target between them. Burnley aside, we aren't a team that really peppers the opposing goal.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

To be honest I would need to know the definition of big miss that they use on the site. The fact he has 7 and the rest of the entire team don't have that between them says enough for me. He is great at link up but needs to improve his finishing. Simples

Why are you blindly using that stat though when as you say, you have seen every minute of every league game this season and you know which chances he's had...

Do you think he should have seven more goals than he has right now?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Why are you blindly using that stat though when as you say, you have seen every minute of every league game this season and you know which chances he's had...

Do you think he should have seven more goals than he has right now?

No but he should have 4 or 5. I think he should have scored two or three of those 7 as 40% is a sensible conversation rate. He has two goals he should have 4 or 5. His link play has been great but he has missed some great opportunities. Denying that flies in the face of what we have seen and what the statistics boffins record.

It's a hard league and all players are judged accordingly. I love Raul for all the right reasons but if the chance falls to him he needs to score and score more often.

 

[Alan]

A 40% conversion rate would make Raul one of the top 5 finishers in the league in just about any season you like. That's a pretty high expectation.

You know who has missed more big chances than Raul so far this year (according to the PL stats)? Sergio Aguero.

I think Jiminez will be alright.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

A 40% conversion rate would make Raul one of the top 5 finishers in the league in just about any season you like. That's a pretty high expectation.

Yeah perhaps 20 to 30 is fairer. But he currently sits at 11% . So even if I am 10 to 20 % out he still needs to double his conversation rate which would give him 4 goals which is what I said. If that makes sense.

https://www.football365.com/news/salah-kane-lukaku-who-misses-the-most-big-chances

This site has him at 22 shots and two goals. As a number 9 he must do better than that regardless of how well he links up play.

 

[Alan]

Yeah perhaps 20 to 30 is fairer. But he currently sits at 11% . So even if I am 10 to 20 % out he still needs to double his conversation rate which would give him 4 goals which is what I said. If that makes sense.

I do get what you're saying to point but for the issues we have going forward at the moment I'm not yet willing to say that Raul is among them.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I do get what you're saying to point but for the issues we have going forward at the moment I'm not yet willing to say that Raul is among them.

And you're right! If Jota and Costa were true to last season's form then the point re Raul is moot. But they are not. My issue is that more big chances according to statistics have fallen to Raul than the whole current starting 11 combined and he has missed 7 and scored two and I say he needs to improve that . Now you can disagree. You can highlight his other contributions but it doesn't change the fact that he has fluffed his scoring lines 7 out if 9 and needs to sort that.

Seven big chances missed is currently the worst alongside Jesus at Citeh! But Citeh have goals from all over the shop. We don't, currently.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Ok let's change it round. Say Patricio has made 22 great stops but let in 2 howlers. Would we not be saying he needs to cut the errors out?

J
Raul has had 22 shots and scored 2 missing 7 big chances. If he had tucked twonof those away he would have 4 from 22 still well below the best but I would be more than happy with that return and big chance conversation rate. I recognise his strengths but also see where he can and must improve

 

[Alan]

Apples and oranges, IMO.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Apples and oranges, IMO.

Ok

Not fight picking just honestly calling what I see. The majority of our clear chances have fallen to Raul and not Jota or Costa and if those chances Raul has missed 7 of 9 big chances by the premier League stats definition. He needs to sharpen up and increase that conversation rate. How is that not a fair critique?

Cesar Luis Menotti the Argentinian manager said it's the managers responsibility to set a side up to create chances. It was however,vthe players responsibility to score them.

 

[The Bear]

The difference for me is Jota hasn't really looked like scoring anywhere near enough with any chances, whereas at least Costa has beat his man and got shots/crosses in.

 

[Dart wolves]

If we were being over run in midfield and not able to get a foot hold in this game, why didnt Nuno change things sooner ,surely he must have realised how Watford were set up and were negating us to a point that we go 2 goals behind. There were some poor individual performances, but it has been said that Nuno seems to struggle a bit with the subs making a decent impact on a game and does he have a plan B when the game is going away from us.
Did not see the game only BBC highlights .

 

[Deleted Cyber]

If we were being over run in midfield and not able to get a foot hold in this game, why didnt Nuno change things sooner ,surely he must have realised how Watford were set up and were negating us to a point that we go 2 goals behind. There were some poor individual performances, but it has been said that Nuno seems to struggle a bit with the subs making a decent impact on a game and does he have a plan B when the game is going away from us.
Did not see the game only BBC highlights .

I thought the goal came out of the blue after an even first 20 minutes. The second so soon meant a real uphill battle as Watford could set themselves up to contain and break and they did it well. Could have got a third bar a great recovery tackle from Neves. We didn't trouble Foster at all , all afternoon.

 

[Tredman]

Someone with a better understanding of football could probably comment better than me, but assuming we can still defend correctly and in the correct shape and get the ball out to the wing backs accurately it probably doesn't matter if we are overrun in CM

 

[Kenny]

Could have got a third bar a great recovery tackle from Neves.

Rui had that one covered. A poor touch enabled Neves to get in but had he left it Patty would have dropped on the ball. Once he saw Neves going in he stopped to ensure he wasn't challenging his own player.

We didn't trouble Foster at all (Boly the only save from his cheeky back heel I think) but again our poor finishing helped that. Costa and Cav both had chances to test him but failed. We also had too many players playing below their ability and at this level you can't get away with that. Neves probably knocked £50m off his price tag on Saturday...

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Someone with a better understanding of football could probably comment better than me, but assuming we can still defend correctly and in the correct shape and get the ball out to the wing backs accurately it probably doesn't matter if we are overrun in CM

It does it you are chasing a game.

 

[Kenny]

Coady pretty much sums it up

"It's disappointing from our point of view - we weren't really at the races in the first half. We lost our shape; they dragged us out a little bit. We weren't good enough - we weren't close enough to players and we weren't pressing well enough, and we got punished for it.

 

[Lord Knows]

Coady pretty much sums it up

"It's disappointing from our point of view - we weren't really at the races in the first half. We lost our shape; they dragged us out a little bit. We weren't good enough - we weren't close enough to players and we weren't pressing well enough, and we got punished for it.

I would like Coady to say which was a consequence of the other.

 

[Johnny75]

Someone with a better understanding of football could probably comment better than me, but assuming we can still defend correctly and in the correct shape and get the ball out to the wing backs accurately it probably doesn't matter if we are overrun in CM

I think that would be Nuno's plan. He's confident his plan would work better than Watford's. The fact we didn't close Doucoure and Capoue down for the first and let Pererya walk through us for the second probably threw him completely.

To be fair to Nuno he did put Vinagre on to get us wide and took Jimenez off and try to get us moving with fast movement around Watfords lumps in defence. Didn't work really as we still didn't deal with the problem of not having the ball in midfield for long enough.

Whilst we did get overrun I thought our movement was sluggish throughout and Costa hid for a while in the first half when we needed his work rate. That would be the difference between him and Cav, I don't think Cav would've given Capoue and Doucoure time to move the ball or press them. At one point we had Costa and Doherty out wide on the touchline when the ball was in the middle and only Moutinho was there to try and stop their central midfield pair giving it to Deulofeu.

Nuno got it wrong but I bet he doesn't next week against Brighton.

 

[Lord Knows]

Someone with a better understanding of football could probably comment better than me, but assuming we can still defend correctly and in the correct shape and get the ball out to the wing backs accurately it probably doesn't matter if we are overrun in CM

Wolves on the ball look to transfer quickly from the centre of the field to out wide but we have to create a threat to our opponents by overloading the flanks. When we don't do that our opponents can allow more one on ones when defending while also playing narrow through midfield. Backing us up through numbers.