Wolves 0-3 Man City: Verdict Thread

[YoungWolf]

Think it's pretty revisionist to claim anything close to perfection from the inside forwards' usage under Nuno. It was an almost ever present complaint after promotion that the front three didn't play close enough together, just like they don't now.

Definitely found it harder in the Premier League but when we clicked through the middle we were a good attacking force under him. Jota-Jimenez partnership and also the prolonged spell in second season with Adama-Raul-Neto/Jota. Otherwise we were a very middle of the road offensively.

Difference is we were probably top four (defeinitely top six) standard defensively. Now we’re average defensively and bottom 3 attacking wise.

 

[Jinky]

Probably an unpopular decision, but Boubacar should be starting ahead of Moutinho from our next game. Looked good. Traore - Neves - Nunes is a midfield three that I’d like to see.

 

[Johnny75]

Probably an unpopular decision, but Boubacar should be starting ahead of Moutinho from our next game. Looked good. Traore - Neves - Nunes is a midfield three that I’d like to see.

If we play 4-3-3 with Traore and Nunes getting in forward positions like De Bruyne and Silva did.

Otherwise it's wide players staying wide under the clueless fuckwit we have in charge and the stats cunts we have hiding at Molineux.

 

[Johnny75]

About time we fucked our stats department off. All the clueless yanks and stats morons can fuck the fuck off.

 

[Charlie Wolf]

Can’t really be arsed to write a book on today, just numb tbh so a summary shit sandwich is in order

We were brave to a point in trying to play football against a far superior team and not lumping it or sticking 10 behind the ball

Lage has had his day now for me, I’ve never been in the Lage out camp or had any agenda like some, but he’s now shown that he’s out of his depth as a PL manager. Whether now or next week we have to part ways soon for the good of the club

Finish with a positive….we do have the tools within the squad to complete with a better manager who knows what they’re doing, so not totally despondent.

MOTM Neves, who else

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Absolutely wank as always. We're a top half team managed by someone I wouldn't have in charge of a League One outfit. Dull, featureless, shapeless, clueless and the players evidently can't stand him. Just awful.

Man of the Match, whoever put the Mango cider on in the Hogshead.

 

[Lupollet]

Embarrassing.
Shit.
We’ll never ever score another goal till this tit is back coaching at Bradford or somewhere.

 

[slink]

Definitely found it harder in the Premier League but when we clicked through the middle we were a good attacking force under him. Jota-Jimenez partnership and also the prolonged spell in second season with Adama-Raul-Neto/Jota. Otherwise we were a very middle of the road offensively.

Difference is we were probably top four (defeinitely top six) standard defensively. Now we’re average defensively and bottom 3 attacking wise.

Do you think this is more down to the approach though? Sit in and counter worked effectively under Nuno and we were outstanding at times doing so and probably could have finished higher than we did twice. We never really looked to dominate the ball but it was widely accepted we needed to do so to try and progress from 7th. Even under Nuno we struggled to break sides down when we looked to control the possession more and it’s worse now but taking Lage out of the equation we don’t have attacking players who look likely to score goals which will always be an issue. Put prime Raul and Jota in this team and i know the general consensus is Lage is shit but i think we would have scored 6/7 goals more. Everyone seems to think we’ve got a better side and technically(footballing wise) we do in both defence and midfield but our attack is not even close to the side Nuno had.

 

[prawnking]

and the players evidently can't stand him

You'd hope if that's the case one or two of the senior ones will be having a word in a few ears higher up

 

[WsWolf]

Think it's pretty revisionist to claim anything close to perfection from the inside forwards' usage under Nuno. It was an almost ever present complaint after promotion that the front three didn't play close enough together, just like they don't now.

I've never claimed anything of the sort. Just that it's better than their current usage.

 

[Johnny75]

Do you think this is more down to the approach though? Sit in and counter worked effectively under Nuno and we were outstanding at times doing so and probably could have finished higher than we did twice. We never really looked to dominate the ball but it was widely accepted we needed to do so to try and progress from 7th. Even under Nuno we struggled to break sides down when we looked to control the possession more and it’s worse now but taking Lage out of the equation we don’t have attacking players who look likely to score goals which will always be an issue. Put prime Raul and Jota in this team and i know the general consensus is Lage is shit but i think we would have scored 6/7 goals more. Everyone seems to think we’ve got a better side and technically(footballing wise) we do in both defence and midfield but our attack is not even close to the side Nuno had.

Wide players who stay wide and fullbacks who stay wide as well mean we have everybody wide and nobody in the middle.

It's shockingly poor tactically, nothing to do with the players this is instructed.

Lage is abysmal tactically but this comes because the club is rotten to the core.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Definitely found it harder in the Premier League but when we clicked through the middle we were a good attacking force under him. Jota-Jimenez partnership and also the prolonged spell in second season with Adama-Raul-Neto/Jota. Otherwise we were a very middle of the road offensively.

Difference is we were probably top four (defeinitely top six) standard defensively. Now we’re average defensively and bottom 3 attacking wise.

I think that period with the Jimenez/Jota front two is the only time there was ever really any threat through the centre. The Traore/Jimenez purple patch was the peak of the front three and that was involving someone playing as a typical winger rather than inside forward. I think that lack of proximity is a big part of the issue with breaking teams down, everyone's still trying to go around the opposition rather than through them, works to stretch a team on the counter but not if they just want to sit in a be solid.

As an aside on your second paragraph, defence has still been pretty good for the most part hasn't? Especially considering they've moved away from a very conservative approach out of possession, not that it's exactly wide open but the safety net has gone to some extent.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I've never claimed anything of the sort. Just that it's better than their current usage.

I'm not convinced by that either, not when you're comparing like for like.

The front three has largely been disjointed since promotion, there hasn't been any great spell of interplay between any of them consistently in that period. To a man they've played too wide and been isolated from the centre forward.

Where the previous regime succeeded, by design or chance, was that the counter attacking approach suited the players far better than asking them to dominate and dismantle teams. I don't think that's necessarily them making better use of inside forwards in particular but the players concerned just look better playing in the big open spaces that approach creates.

 

[YoungWolf]

Do you think this is more down to the approach though? Sit in and counter worked effectively under Nuno and we were outstanding at times doing so and probably could have finished higher than we did twice. We never really looked to dominate the ball but it was widely accepted we needed to do so to try and progress from 7th. Even under Nuno we struggled to break sides down when we looked to control the possession more and it’s worse now but taking Lage out of the equation we don’t have attacking players who look likely to score goals which will always be an issue. Put prime Raul and Jota in this team and i know the general consensus is Lage is shit but i think we would have scored 6/7 goals more. Everyone seems to think we’ve got a better side and technically(footballing wise) we do in both defence and midfield but our attack is not even close to the side Nuno had.

I don't know how anyone can ask if Nuno's approach stopped us from finishing higher in those two seasons, that's insane to me. The first season 7th was pretty much bang on, though the points gap between us and sixth (Arsenal) was probably larger than it should have been in terms of the underlying metrics. The second season we were genuinely such a good team (after those first six games!). Able to dictate at the right time and play a low/mid block for long periods of games before pouncing. Still had a couple of games where we struggled to break teams don't but not as often as you'd think. We should have finished 5th/6th that season and without Covid we most likely would have anyway.

I think that period with the Jimenez/Jota front two is the only time there was ever really any threat through the centre. The Traore/Jimenez purple patch was the peak of the front three and that was involving someone playing as a typical winger rather than inside forward. I think that lack of proximity is a big part of the issue with breaking teams down, everyone's still trying to go around the opposition rather than through them, works to stretch a team on the counter but not if they just want to sit in a be solid.

As an aside on your second paragraph, defence has still been pretty good for the most part hasn't? Especially considering they've moved away from a very conservative approach out of possession, not that it's exactly wide open but the safety net has gone to some extent.

When we had Traore firing in that period we had a good balance where Doherty would play/arrive inside. Likewise Jonny with Neto on the opposite side. Jota would play inside very well but Jonny's lack of ability to play outside on the left sometimes hurt us in that scenario.

Defence has been fine this season. Probably top half. Was bottom half last season just massively skewed by Sa/luck imo..

 

[slink]

I don't know how anyone can ask if Nuno's approach stopped us from finishing higher in those two seasons, that's insane to me. The first season 7th was pretty much bang on, though the points gap between us and sixth (Arsenal) was probably larger than it should have been in terms of the underlying metrics. The second season we were genuinely such a good team (after those first six games!). Able to dictate at the right time and play a low/mid block for long periods of games before pouncing. Still had a couple of games where we struggled to break teams don't but not as often as you'd think. We should have finished 5th/6th that season and without Covid we most likely would have anyway.

Apologies i think you’ve misunderstood what i was saying. I wasn’t saying Nuno’s approach stopped us finishing higher, i was saying that in future seasons which haven’t happened along with new players the general consensus was that we needed to change that approach slightly to have more control of the ball and more guile with it especially against the weaker sides so we could break them down.

 

[YoungWolf]

Apologies i think you’ve misunderstood what i was saying. I wasn’t saying Nuno’s approach stopped us finishing higher, i was saying that in future seasons which haven’t happened along with new players the general consensus was that we needed to change that approach slightly to have more control of the ball and more guile with it especially against the weaker sides so we could break them down.

I see, I see, sorry!

You are right there was that consensus, Nuno even seemed to think so (fairly big talk about it when he signed that new contract). he started with that lopsided 352 which quickly was rightly binned. Stumbled across the back four due to Coady getting Covid which was then ruined by the injury to Raul.

I just think (benefit of hindsight of course) we needed to continue in the same vein tbh, just keep adding different tools to our armoury. We improved a lot from the first season to second. Beating the teams lower in the league wasn't a massive issue. Spurs are a good example. I was at their game today. Not a proactive team at all until they decide to (second half like us under Nuno). Obviously Conte is a world class example but it can be done in that way.

Covid fucked us really, in various ways that we've all debated many times. And we haven't found a way back on track yet. I think recruitment has largely been very good this summer so a good head coach might have helped us managed to get back to being a proper top half team.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

Yeah, i thought he was decent overall.

I felt a bit embarrassed for Neves with how vehemently he was arguing that Collins shouldn't have been sent off, likewise with Collins himself.

Given that ref's NEVER change their mind having been harangued by a player, I really wish Neves would wind it in every time there's a booking coming. He's in the ref's face, close up and loud every time and I wish he'd ease off a bit.

 

[Alan]

Given that ref's NEVER change their mind having been harangued by a player, I really wish Neves would wind it in every time there's a booking coming. He's in the ref's face, close up and loud every time and I wish he'd ease off a bit.

I don't think I'm being unfair when I say that we've gotten much, much worse about this sort of "gamesmanship" since Bruno took over.

 

[Jack Regan]

As Neves is Captain he's allowed to talk to the referee no?

 

[b3h]

Given that ref's NEVER change their mind having been harangued by a player, I really wish Neves would wind it in every time there's a booking coming. He's in the ref's face, close up and loud every time and I wish he'd ease off a bit.

He's having a race with Palinha