Wolves 0-2 Crystal Palace: Verdict Thread

[prawnking]

So why are two successive managers ending up making the same mistake?

 

[Wilf Wolf]

So why are two successive managers ending up making the same mistake?

Caution at all times. Shape, shape, shape. We hardly ever try a threaded pass as the opposition could intercept and break with players slightly out of position. It’s attritional and just about tolerable when it works but Lage could rapidly lose all the credit he has built up if we play the same way in the two games this week and lose.

 

[Johnny75]

So why are two successive managers ending up making the same mistake?

It's baffling.

Can't be a coincidence both have played the exact same way.

There's something deeper at play.

 

[sycophantia]

So why are two successive managers ending up making the same mistake?

Portuguese style and coaching ethos?

 

[WolfMan]

I don't think having 3 cb's helps the tempo of our play at all as if there's nothing obvious on in front of the player in possession they've always got that safe option backwards. The fact we've got 3 cb's also means there will be less players in front to pass to in the first place too.

We must be really easy to play against, you watch other teams and it's one, two touch trying to destabilise the opposition, with us it's 3,4,5,6 touches, the opposition get in their shape block off any passing lines and then it's a safe pass backwards and it starts again.

 

[Tony Towner]

It's one of the reasons Nuno changed formation in the first season up. In the Championship you can move the ball around waiting to find an overload or a defensive lapse, that rarely happens in the PL

 

[Alan]

It's baffling.

Can't be a coincidence both have played the exact same way.

There's something deeper at play.

Could be that Bruno just isn't up to it.

He's got time to prove me wrong but even at my least optimistic I would have expected some semblance of improvement at this stage, not unlike what we've seen from Arsenal.

Instead, we've drastically regressed since Saiss went to AFCON.

 

[YoungWolf]

I'm not sure much has changed since Saiss went to AFCON. We didn't create much before that and we were overperforming defensively too. The difference this season with the defenders is they are a bit more aggressive which Bruno has even said he has challenged them do before. So we definitely block more and win more headers in our own penalty area this season where last season was so passive.

I think a lot our our attacking struggles come from us feeling the need to protect the back three as individuals. The last two games have had plenty of examples where all three but especially Saiss and Coady have struggled defending bigger spaces. So we are cautious in the way we play even with the ball because we seem scared to commit players.

 

[Alan]

Specifically the way we plug gaps for each other out of possession has regressed significantly, IMO. How much of that isn’t helped by Semedo’s absence is hard to say, but it’s definitely left Kilman exposed.

 

[Tony Towner]

Specifically the way we plug gaps for each other out of possession has regressed significantly, IMO. How much of that isn’t helped by Semedo’s absence is hard to say, but it’s definitely left Kilman exposed.

Kilman was exposed against Leicester when Semedo played. It's not how we play, it's how the opposition play against us which has changed in that respect. Hit us quick on the transition with the wing back high up the pitch ams isolate the centre half. Their first goal came from that on Saturday

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

And for Pepe's goal IIRC.

Edit: (Not Kilman, Saiss, but the same situation)

 

[PuntsWolf]

That’s standard against any back 3. That’s why the outside CB needs to be good at defending the channels, which until recently Kilman has been excellent at.

But you also have an extra CB so when you do get dragged into that area you still have plenty of support inside, not leaving gaping holes like their would be in a 4, but the FB most likely wouldn’t be out the Picture either, they’d be able to tuck back Inside into the CBs position

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You do wonder what we're getting from Lage that we wouldn't be getting from Nuno, because it isn't goals or good football, and he either has limited/no say on transfers and it's a non factor, or he was fine with or even a key part of signing Hwang and Trincao (who are both wank), which would be a concern. He's bigged up as a bit of a master with youth but all he's done there is not pick Cundle for ages when he could have then immediately drop him after a good debut, and marginalise Fabio to the point he frequently never even comes on as sub.

Spending £10m+ on sacking our entire backroom staff then a year's money on top for whatever the new lot are costing us, seems steep. Meanwhile we're all paying a lot more to watch football that is a lot worse than we were watching two years ago.

We don't seem better tactically, we aren't any more fun to watch than the lowest of Nuno's reign (which is absolutely not how he should be judged as a whole), a McGhee-esque record whenever we go behind, crap subs, we were shite in the cups and he doesn't have the personality that Nuno had. Now started saying we played well when we could all see that we didn't (then claiming less than a week later that he was really angry) and digging out players in public.

The jury is very much out, I'm not sure he survives the summer if we go at under 1 PPG (and/or 1 GPG) from here for the rest of the season.

 

[sycophantia]

You do wonder what we're getting from Lage that we wouldn't be getting from Nuno, because it isn't goals or good football, and he either has limited/no say on transfers and it's a non factor, or he was fine with or even a key part of signing Hwang and Trincao (who are both wank), which would be a concern. He's bigged up as a bit of a master with youth but all he's done there is not pick Cundle for ages when he could have then immediately drop him after a good debut, and marginalise Fabio to the point he frequently never even comes on as sub.

Spending £10m+ on sacking our entire backroom staff then a year's money on top for whatever the new lot are costing us, seems steep. Meanwhile we're all paying a lot more to watch football that is a lot worse than we were watching two years ago.

We don't seem better tactically, we aren't any more fun to watch than the lowest of Nuno's reign (which is absolutely not how he should be judged as a whole), a McGhee-esque record whenever we go behind, crap subs, we were shite in the cups and he doesn't have the personality that Nuno had. Now started saying we played well when we could all see that we didn't (then claiming less than a week later that he was really angry) and digging out players in public.

The jury is very much out, I'm not sure he survives the summer if we go at under 1 PPG (and/or 1 GPG) from here for the rest of the season.

Unfortunately I have to agree, at the start I was happy to give the guy a chance (still am till the end of the season) and to be fair there did seem to be some improvements on last season in some games. He's done some weird stuff with subs when we've gone behind (as did Nuno).
Now the season is done, unless we see a sharp upturn in results, then he will be judged on how he starts preparing for next season.....I'm not confident tbh.

 

[prawnking]

You do wonder what we're getting from Lage that we wouldn't be getting from Nuno

You'd have thought that it was a case of Nuno's head being gone or the players not responding to him and his methods after a while, coupled with the club wanting a more progressive playing style.

But, as you say, the latter hasn't materialised, and it doesn't currently look like they're running through brick walls for Bruno and his fresh ideas either?

 

[Alan]

If we're under 1 GPG at the end of the season, I'm betting Lage gets sacked.

 

[YoungWolf]

You'd have thought that it was a case of Nuno's head being gone or the players not responding to him and his methods after a while, coupled with the club wanting a more progressive playing style.

But, as you say, the latter hasn't materialised, and it doesn't currently look like they're running through brick walls for Bruno and his fresh ideas either?

Yeah I think this is also fair as much as I wanted him to be given the chance to prove that otherwise. And we've seen that from his rather brief reign at Spurs, which was painful to watch.

The vibe I get is that the players like Bruno tbf. And I think you can tell he's a decent enough coach. But think if we come away from a battle for an european places in the next few games he will need to showcase what the next season is going to look like with some kind of progress in our attacking play. That's probably what did for Nuno in the end, as even with nothing to play for we just limped on.

 

[Deano]

I don't think the Hoever situation is a very good look from the manager and I'm not saying Hoever is not at fault. If his attitude has been shit towards preparation, he deserves a bollocking just not so publicly. This along with his performances don't look good for his future at the club and he obviously wasn't worth the money the club paid but it's also easy to forget he was an 18 year old kid with 0 league appearances when we signed him and he's hasn't played enough since to bring him on much. Not trying to make excuses for the player, just never in favour of doing things like this in public, reminds me of Dave Jones doing it to Adam Matthews a few years back.

 

[Tony Towner]

Nuno had 3 seasons credit in the bank and got sacked after one poor one, this guy has half a season. It's a weird one, when we finish somewhere between 8th and 12th, I'd have said that's a decent season in August. New manager, seriously hampered by recruitment, trying to set a new philosophy of playing. Because the last part of that, bar the centre halves and keeper playing 5-10 yards higher up the pitch hasn't happened it's difficult to judge. Depends a lot on what the spending plans are, if we seriously want to invest even if that's with generated money then I think that he's in trouble. More of the same he'll be fine as a nodding dog.

 

[t3ch]

Could be that Bruno just isn't up to it.

He's got time to prove me wrong but even at my least optimistic I would have expected some semblance of improvement at this stage, not unlike what we've seen from Arsenal.

Instead, we've drastically regressed since Saiss went to AFCON.

Saiss out