The Summer 2018 Transfer Thread

[Tony Towner]

If he is great does spending £4m more matter? If the club are where Fosun want us to be by the time he can be classed as a success and that £4m or whatever is required, then $#@!ing happy days, Boro get to have a few of European Football ££££.
If he is poor, he will be gone loooooong before any extras are needed and you can pretty much guarantee that we will get back pretty much all we gave to Boro when he gets sold back to the Championship to a newly relegated team with money to burn to get back up.

What if those extras are guaranteed though? My reading of this isn't that this is a traditional deal where we pay £10m over the length of the initial contract with the extras based on appearances, goals, team performance etc. It's a cheque for £10m now, with further already agreed payments at staged intervals. From what I can see this is not a £10m signing even if he doesn't kick a ball for us.

 

[Carrotdude]

If he is great does spending £4m more matter? If the club are where Fosun want us to be by the time he can be classed as a success and that £4m or whatever is required, then fucking happy days, Boro get to have a few of European Football ££££.
If he is poor, he will be gone loooooong before any extras are needed and you can pretty much guarantee that we will get back pretty much all we gave to Boro when he gets sold back to the Championship to a newly relegated team with money to burn to get back up.

Was about to post something similar, his age and physical attributes mean we’ll get most of our money back even if he doesn’t do well and it’s not like we can’t afford to buy a cb because of this so I can’t understand the waste of money arguments. Personally I think he’ll be a good signing and give us another option that we don’t currently have.

 

[AndyWolves]

I know, radical idea here but bare with me, let's base our opinions on Traore by how he plays

 

[Tredman]

In the grand scheme of Fosun and the prem £18m isn't much money. Traore could be a superb option from the bench against tiring players. I get that cav is that option but too often last season we had a tired Jota playing the entire 90, this gives up the chance to bring on two contrasting forwards if we need to chase games.

Let's sign him and we can look forward to breaking our new transfer record later this week.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

:icon_lol:

To be fair I initially thought Mancienne was quite good but was quickly proven wrong. 14 year old me always saw (or managed to find) the good in players.

You're still only 14?!

 

[YoungWolf]

You're still only 14?!

I knew that was coming!

to be honest with Traore it's not about me trying to find the good when it is well documented what he can and can not do, though I think his technical ability (particularly his ability to escape three or four players in tight spaces) is underplayed somewhat.

My angle is where he fits in tactically into our team. I don't see him being thrown in the deep end (unless Nuno really, really rates him, I mean think he is already a superstar) as he will have to understand our defensive shape, how we transition and how we position ourselves in possession. Get those things right, and I think we will, and we have a massive problem for the opposition. Do they press us on the ball, because if they do we have another huge threat if we find the spaces between the lines. Do they commit players forward when they attack, because we have an unquestionably quick player on the counter attack? Do they sit deep, because we have seen his ability to run and drive at players in small spaces with success? He had too much running to do at Middlesbrough (and Villa) but in our system he will not be a one man attack and it comes down to whether that makes him a better and more effective player being one of many options or whether he can only handle being the centre of a team's whole game plan.

 

[Del Woppio]

ForeverYoungWolf

 

[Kenny]

What if those extras are guaranteed though? My reading of this isn't that this is a traditional deal where we pay £10m over the length of the initial contract with the extras based on appearances, goals, team performance etc. It's a cheque for £10m now, with further already agreed payments at staged intervals. From what I can see this is not a £10m signing even if he doesn't kick a ball for us.

His fee is £18m, regardless of what happens as that is the number we had to hit to get to speak to him (My guess it will be structured like Costa's fee - Initial payment, in this case £10m and the rest paid across the length of his contract unless we sell him and then we have to pay off what we owe). I would say the add-ons will be extras based on appearances, team performance etc that will add a possible £4m to the bill. We could avoided that by simply paying £18m in one hit. Obviously he is a hit and £22m is nothing. He is a failure, we will get back a lot of what we are paying for him, we might lose some but then the same can be said of any signing we make. Jiminez could have a decent season and then we pay over the £30m+ already agreed for him and he has a shocker the following for example.

As I put my personal view on this is I am just glad we have a board we are prepared to find ways to back the manager and give him what he wants rather than a board that decides what he wants and gets them in for him *cough*Joe Mason*cough*. If the deal is one the club are happy to do and they ain't no schmucks and Nuno is happy then right now, I am happy.

 

[slink]

The £4 million difference between the fees is nothing these days and if it was a signing people wanted they would be saying exactly that but as it’s not the difference gets exaggerated much like the negative views of Adama. I’m happy with the signing but still think Jota and Costa are better, i do think though that Traore gives us something we don’t have and the more options we have the better and on his day he will scare the best teams and if his end product keeps on improving then we will have a very good player on our hands.

I also agree with YW that some will never want him even if he does well (this doesn’t mean they don’t want him to do well) but a bit like Doherty who has been much improved in the last 2 seasons and was a very important player last year but still didn’t get the credit he deserved from some.

 

[BGreenWolf]

Traore is a risky acquisition- the club know this as well as we do. The deal as described is not a steal, but it's a sensible way of hedging our bets against a player that may not actually work out, but will be a huge asset if he does.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Doherty has improved, in part, because he does what he’s told. Nuno and his team coach decision making, players know what to do in specific situations. Traore won’t need a footballing brain if he does what Nuno tells him to do when Nuno tells him to do it.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I knew that was coming!

to be honest with Traore it's not about me trying to find the good when it is well documented what he can and can not do, though I think his technical ability (particularly his ability to escape three or four players in tight spaces) is underplayed somewhat.

My angle is where he fits in tactically into our team. I don't see him being thrown in the deep end (unless Nuno really, really rates him, I mean think he is already a superstar) as he will have to understand our defensive shape, how we transition and how we position ourselves in possession. Get those things right, and I think we will, and we have a massive problem for the opposition. Do they press us on the ball, because if they do we have another huge threat if we find the spaces between the lines. Do they commit players forward when they attack, because we have an unquestionably quick player on the counter attack? Do they sit deep, because we have seen his ability to run and drive at players in small spaces with success? He had too much running to do at Middlesbrough (and Villa) but in our system he will not be a one man attack and it comes down to whether that makes him a better and more effective player being one of many options or whether he can only handle being the centre of a team's whole game plan.

There are obviously things he does very well, he's got that electric pace but his close control to accompany is what makes him a real threat, the issue for me is how that fits into the current Wolves team. Not that it's ever a bad thing to have a player who can just skip past a couple of men like they're not even there but in isolation it can be all but useless, a lot of the time he seems to go on these runs and the only way it comes to an end is when it's out of his hands, either losing the ball or just gets the byline and chucks it in the box, has he got the right stuff upstairs to really make the most of those abilities and still fit in with the more considered football Wolves displayed last year? If he can't adapt to that then he's ultimately going to be a very frustrating player for Wolves, potentially capable of roasting an entire defence but rarely being able to take advantage of the situation and get the ball back into team mates that can finish it off, if he can't adapt then he might well take away more from the team as a whole than he adds with his individual strengths over the likes of Costa and Cavaleiro.

To me he feels much more like a McCarthy type signing, a standout in a lower league, performed well when played against and very much a 'give it him, watch what he does' kind of style for the most part, it just doesn't feel like the really fits the ethos of the side despite his plus points. Even the best players can fall foul of it too, Neymar being a strong contender again at the moment just thinking he's a one man team all the time, yes he's unbelievably talented but so often he could achieve so much more by realises that he's not the only person on his team.

 

[Johnny75]

Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed (again)? Calm down. I've never said he doesn't want him to do well, why are you such an angry man on here these days?

He literally just said how either way it's not a good deal, regardless if he does well? Hence why I think some have made their minds up, regardless of how he does.

Apologies if I was too aggressive for you.

You're a bright boy, surely you can see the difference between a deal for a player and playing well? Wolves are simply hedging their bets but none of us know whether the installments are performance related or not. If they aren't it's not a very good deal at all, if they are then paying more for a player we could have had for less isn't a good deal either. The only time it's a good deal is if he fails and doesn't make the performance related parts of the deal. Seems an odd way to do things to me.

Saying people won't be on board whatever happens and using the opinions you don't know people will have in the future is poor as you have no idea what people will think in the future.

As PQ suggested to before really, it is somewhere in the middle. I have never said I think he is amazing, but I can totally see the merits of signing him and think he will be a good part of what is a very good squad we have. Equally, I understand people's reticency towards it but think some of the negativity has been over the top.

Is that what PQ has suggested? As far as I can see that particular poster has lambasted anybody who has the temerity to think this isn't good and those people should be football managers to prove their opinion on a forum is valid.

And I can't see anywhere that says that Traore doesn't have traits for a good footballer but a look around 'Boro boards suggest the player without a brain part isn't without merit. If we buy him then I hope he does well and I imagine all Wolves fans will want him to.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Doherty has improved, in part, because he does what he’s told. Nuno and his team coach decision making, players know what to do in specific situations. Traore won’t need a footballing brain if he does what Nuno tells him to do when Nuno tells him to do it.

Footballing robots, yay!

 

[Langers]

I think he'll be an exciting signing. Guaranteed starter? Probably not. Good squad member, able to add to our attacking options, can scare the shit out of defenders with his pace? Yes.

I'm pleased with it - I agree with YW.

 

[YoungWolf]

There are obviously things he does very well, he's got that electric pace but his close control to accompany is what makes him a real threat, the issue for me is how that fits into the current Wolves team. Not that it's ever a bad thing to have a player who can just skip past a couple of men like they're not even there but in isolation it can be all but useless, a lot of the time he seems to go on these runs and the only way it comes to an end is when it's out of his hands, either losing the ball or just gets the byline and chucks it in the box, has he got the right stuff upstairs to really make the most of those abilities and still fit in with the more considered football Wolves displayed last year? If he can't adapt to that then he's ultimately going to be a very frustrating player for Wolves, potentially capable of roasting an entire defence but rarely being able to take advantage of the situation and get the ball back into team mates that can finish it off, if he can't adapt then he might well take away more from the team as a whole than he adds with his individual strengths over the likes of Costa and Cavaleiro.

To me he feels much more like a McCarthy type signing, a standout in a lower league, performed well when played against and very much a 'give it him, watch what he does' kind of style for the most part, it just doesn't feel like the really fits the ethos of the side despite his plus points. Even the best players can fall foul of it too, Neymar being a strong contender again at the moment just thinking he's a one man team all the time, yes he's unbelievably talented but so often he could achieve so much more by realises that he's not the only person on his team.

The bit in bold is important for me. I think it is a mistake to think that that is what his game is about (I'm not saying you think that) but to me he is far, far more effective in the inside channel, or the 'half-space' and that suits us because that is where we like to position our inside forwards and where we create a lot of chances from, either playing our wing back in or combining with the forward. What Traore adds to that is the ability to commit defenders and take them out of the game in those spaces, and be more direct. If he can make the most of also having a forward who likes to drop in to receive rather than someone who just hangs around the penalty area like Middlesbrough wanted their forwards to do, even better

Take the play off game against Villa last season, I've seen plenty use that as a stick to beat him with when he was marked by Hutton, which I understand. Hutton did a good job, quite similar to Herrera on Hazard the year before when United beat Chelsea (who went on to win the league). Watching that game frustrated me immensely because Pulis just continued to instruct Boro to play it to him wide and hope for the best, when it was painfully obvious that pushing him inside more would not only making his running more dangerous but that it would give Villa a decision to make. Does Hutton continue to follow him as he did both legs, because if they do they are taking a huge risk defensively. Low and behold, once Traore did start receiving the ball centrally for the last 15 minutes he caused them a lot more issues.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The bit in bold is important for me. I think it is a mistake to think that that is what his game is about (I'm not saying you think that) but to me he is far, far more effective in the inside channel, or the 'half-space' and that suits us because that is where we like to position our inside forwards and where we create a lot of chances from, either playing our wing back in or combining with the forward. What Traore adds to that is the ability to commit defenders and take them out of the game in those spaces, and be more direct. If he can make the most of also having a forward who likes to drop in to receive rather than someone who just hangs around the penalty area like Middlesbrough wanted their forwards to do, even better

Take the play off game against Villa last season, I've seen plenty use that as a stick to beat him with when he was marked by Hutton, which I understand. Hutton did a good job, quite similar to Herrera on Hazard the year before when United beat Chelsea (who went on to win the league). Watching that game frustrated me immensely because Pulis just continued to instruct Boro to play it to him wide and hope for the best, when it was painfully obvious that pushing him inside more would not only making his running more dangerous but that it would give Villa a decision to make. Does Hutton continue to follow him as he did both legs, because if they do they are taking a huge risk defensively. Low and behold, once Traore did start receiving the ball centrally for the last 15 minutes he caused them a lot more issues.

Whether he's wide or narrow I don't think really solves the issue of his decision making, taking people on in central areas can be more threatening than taking the fullback on one on one because it can create that overload in this centre of the pitch but if he doesn't make the right decision after beating a man then it's just as worthless isn't it? I think it was Bear that put a video up a while back of loads of clips of Traore running at people, what worried me there was that almost all of the clips were very short and cut off before he actually got to the end of his run, favourable editing I'd think, so you never really saw the end result of his work, I'd imagine many ended badly otherwise why would you cut that part of the clip off? If he just keeps running until he's tackled or overruns it or whatever then it makes no difference how many men he got past, it'll come to nothing, if he can beat a couple of people and then pick a pass to a team mate when they've got an overload then that's a useful variation to have on the quick combination play that Wolves used to great effect last season. The worry for me is that he'll just keep running and running until something stops him, rather than looking for a team mate at the opportune time, so whilst he'll get bums off seats he will ultimately fail to make the most of his assets for the benefit of the team as a whole.

 

[Jinky]

Got a coffee, sat down to read through the last three pages. Now my eyes are bleeding. Cheers all.

*Logs off*

 

[Kenny]

Got a coffee, sat down to read through the last three pages. Now my eyes are bleeding. Cheers all.

*Logs off*

Well done chaps. Mission achieved

Back tomorrow to ensure Jinks has another day away...

 

[YoungWolf]

Whether he's wide or narrow I don't think really solves the issue of his decision making, taking people on in central areas can be more threatening than taking the fullback on one on one because it can create that overload in this centre of the pitch but if he doesn't make the right decision after beating a man then it's just as worthless isn't it? I think it was Bear that put a video up a while back of loads of clips of Traore running at people, what worried me there was that almost all of the clips were very short and cut off before he actually got to the end of his run, favourable editing I'd think, so you never really saw the end result of his work, I'd imagine many ended badly otherwise why would you cut that part of the clip off? If he just keeps running until he's tackled or overruns it or whatever then it makes no difference how many men he got past, it'll come to nothing, if he can beat a couple of people and then pick a pass to a team mate when they've got an overload then that's a useful variation to have on the quick combination play that Wolves used to great effect last season. The worry for me is that he'll just keep running and running until something stops him, rather than looking for a team mate at the opportune time, so whilst he'll get bums off seats he will ultimately fail to make the most of his assets for the benefit of the team as a whole.

I saw the clip and thought the same. But I think your point about being able to beat players centrally when we've got the overload is a variation is a key one that we can add to our play, and he will improve us in that area. That next part is crucial but we've seen it with lots of players where they join a better team with better attacking principles and the player has become a lot more effective. His managers so far have been Sherwood, Garde, Karanka, Monk and Pulis I think in English football. I'm not sure any of them had any actual attacking structures or 'strategies', so IMO this is where we will find out whether Traore can add that next part to his game like he needs to. I don't see him as a greedy player personally, so I think he will improve a lot in our team with a more organised way of attacking.

That is just attacking though. The inside forward position if very important defensively which he will have to get to grips with quickly or it will take him a while to get regular starts. I have no issue with this though I imagine some think the fee is too high for someone to play that type of role initially, which I can understand.