The Rugby Thread

[Tredman]

Lancaster should be given until the Uruguay dead rubber, and then should step down immediately after. England have failed badly in this tournament and the buck stops with him.

Yup.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

Not sure Wales will get much out of Australia next week. Do you reckon you can beat the Boks Paddy?

 

[jd1981]

Lancaster should be given until the Uruguay dead rubber, and then should step down immediately after. England have failed badly in this tournament and the buck stops with him.

He's probably cursing the draw any other group and England would have progressed, but reality is he had a good set of players at his disposal who should have been capable of progression at least once against Wales or Australia at home.
I think if had couple of 6N under his belt he may had survived.

 

[Parkins left foot]

No, English clubs are governed by very strict financial rules, which means sugar daddies have minimal effect.

Therefore they need to bring players through their youth ranks and can't do a 'France' and hire the best players from abroad - simultaneously destroying French development and Celtic teams.

Wasn't aware of that. though fail to see how picking the odd foreign 'convert' ( who would have only been head hunted due to being an established quality player) affects the development of younger talent here. If anything it would open up opportunities at senior club level. If they are then good enough to go om & represent their country then they will do so.

 

[Tredman]

I don't follow the pro12, but I'm sure we have Welsh and Irish supporters on here who could explain how shite it has become. The old great Welsh teams of the past have gone, I'd hate to see amalgamated bath and Bristol teams, or Leicester and Northampton.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I will deal with both of those in one post if I may!

Firstly, it isn't certain we are playing the Boks yet. We have the winner takes all against this Australian side to deal with first. For me, I think we will run them closer, but defeat is fairly likely so that brings us to the Boks.

Yes, I believe Wales can beat the Boks. Toss of a coin game. It would be a brutal game and then the winner will have nothing left for the All Blacks.

Regarding the draw. How ridiculous. To make the draw in the one week Wales dropped in the rankings that creates a group of death. Arrggghhh. But everyone knew it from the moment the draw was made. Saying that though, England had enough resource to get through. They failed, and that is Lancaster's fault. If the Wales game had gone the other way, Gatland might have gone too. Just a stupid draw to have 3,4,5 in the world in one group.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I don't follow the pro12, but I'm sure we have Welsh and Irish supporters on here who could explain how shite it has become. The old great Welsh teams of the past have gone, I'd hate to see amalgamated bath and Bristol teams, or Leicester and Northampton.

*Nods*

My father played for Bath. Combining them with Bristol and Gloucester is vomit inducing. The loss of Newport (properly) and Neath is just wrong for me.

 

[Tredman]

Neath are the one for me, truly outstanding team in my younger days. Probably my greatest memory in rugby was playing against them while in youth teams.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The Gnoll - what a ground. Proper rugby.

 

[wombourne wolves]

Watched it in a bar in Gran Canaria opposite a Welsh bar that overflowed in pent u repression that comes with a 1000 years of colonisation.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Regarding the draw. How ridiculous. To make the draw in the one week Wales dropped in the rankings that creates a group of death. Arrggghhh. But everyone knew it from the moment the draw was made. Saying that though, England had enough resource to get through. They failed, and that is Lancaster's fault. If the Wales game had gone the other way, Gatland might have gone too. Just a stupid draw to have 3,4,5 in the world in one group.

It was ridiculous but we knew about it long enough ago and when faced with the challenge we haven't produced. We were outclassed all over the park tonight and that isn't good enough.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Beaten by a superior team.

Correct. Australia were better than England, sad but true.

 

[jd1981]

Just coming to terms with the disaster of the last 8 days, RFU have stated this morning there will be no hasty reactions to what has happened and decisions will be made with thorough clear minds. Read into that what you will, personally I think Lancaster and Robshaw will lead the side for one last time next week.
After we came 2nd again in the 6N in March it was the RFU who stated that we had been under achieving.
A lot of people are making comparisons with the start of Clice Woodwards era when we went out in the Quarter final.
To me that's crap you could clearly see back then England we're developing into a top side and were knocked out that day by a Freakish drop kicking display you'll ever see.
This side should have developed further by now and should have at least one 6N title under its belt, as I've said Lancasters sides have a bad habit of bottling the crunch moments in crunch games.

 

[Lord Knows]

Just coming to terms with the disaster of the last 8 days, RFU have stated this morning there will be no hasty reactions to what has happened and decisions will be made with thorough clear minds. Read into that what you will, personally I think Lancaster and Robshaw will lead the side for one last time next week.
After we came 2nd again in the 6N in March it was the RFU who stated that we had been under achieving.
A lot of people are making comparisons with the start of Clice Woodwards era when we went out in the Quarter final.
To me that's crap you could clearly see back then England we're developing into a top side and were knocked out that day by a Freakish drop kicking display you'll ever see.
This side should have developed further by now and should have at least one 6N title under its belt, as I've said Lancasters sides have a bad habit of bottling the crunch moments in crunch games.

English national sports sides routinely bottle big moments when participating in World Cups shocker. Different players, same end result. Question the English mentality.

 

[jd1981]

English national sports sides routinely bottle big moments when participating in World Cups shocker. Different players, same end result. Question the English mentality.

Hmmm if that was the case we'd have bottled the 2003 World Cup. More of a case of poor preparation, tactical decision making and coaching.
Other than the last two World cups England are generally a good World Cup side, winners once and twice runners up and in those tournaments they regularly found themselves with there backs to the wall and had to find good mental strength to get out of holes ie the quarter final against Wales in 2003.
I don't by the fact it's English mentality.

 

[Lord Knows]

Hmmm if that was the case we'd have bottled the 2003 World Cup. More of a case of poor preparation, tactical decision making and coaching.
Other than the last two World cups England are generally a good World Cup side, winners once and twice runners up and in those tournaments they regularly found themselves with there backs to the wall and had to find good mental strength to get out of holes ie the quarter final against Wales in 2003.
I don't by the fact it's English mentality.

I think at times you will get individual sportsmen who are the exception to the rule and by their own performance can turn a teams performance on its head. But I feel in general the country with the better team mentality usually pulls through under pressure.

 

[jd1981]

I think at times you will get individual sportsmen who are the exception to the rule and by their own performance can turn a teams performance on its head. But I feel in general the country with the better team mentality usually pulls through under pressure.

In 2007 England weren't a great side and over achieved by reaching the final, this after being battered by SA in the group stage they showed incredible mental strength against Australia and France.
Reality is you could level the same accusation at many New Zealand sides through the years. Wales and Ireland throughout the years with players they have had they've hugely under achieved at world cups.

 

[Lord Knows]

In 2007 England weren't a great side and over achieved by reaching the final, this after being battered by SA in the group stage they showed incredible mental strength against Australia and France.
Reality is you could level the same accusation at many New Zealand sides through the years. Wales and Ireland throughout the years with players they have had they've hugely under achieved at world cups.

Obviously some countries seem to handle pressure better than others.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Perhaps we aren't that good.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Australia really laid down a marker last night, they look the most impressive side so far, as DDW said Chieka is a good coach at Leinster he turned around a side who had talent but a soft centre to win the Heineken Cup and then transformed the Waratahs to win the Super 14, they will be hard to beat.

With England where do you start, so much wrong with them and the RFU have a lot of blame. I think most rugby fans sensed that Lancaster would eventually be found wanting when the pressure was but I doubt anybody could forsee he would lose the plot so much, that half time substitution last night was crazy, his supporters said at least England wont suffer the embarassing incidents of Johnson's time, well getting knocked out in the pool stages as a host nation is a lot more embarrassing then a few pissed up blokes throwing a couple of consenting dwarves around a bar.

As for Armitage he knew the rules when he went but saying that the RFU were prepared to throw a load of wedge 12 months ago on a 100-1 gamble on project Burgess (he was never going to make an impact in such space of time despite all his attributes FFS they havent worked out if he is a back or forward yet) but wouldn't go to Armitage with a load of cash to come back for a year as it was plain as day even then that they needed somebody to compete with the Pocock, Hooper and Warburton etc at the breakdown and he is probably the best in Europe. Australia were right to change their rules for Giteau, South Africa changed theirs a couple of years back even NZ with their resources were prepared to change them when Carter was going to France.

Saying that the way Lancaster lost the plot I dont think he would have saved them.