The Rugby Thread

[Bit on the shaggies]

I think you are being very harsh.

a) - it isn't a new tactic
b) - Italy went from a near sixty point dicking to being in the game with five minutes to go so it clearly worked
c) - It was England's responsibility to work out an answer to the question asked. In the end they did.

Shite rugby though.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd equate it to some of the worst excesses of Pulis/Allardyce teams, is it effective, to a point yes, would I want to watch it every week, fucking hell no.

 

[Tredman]

That's the point - rugby is really growing in popularity (in England at least) crap like that sets it back and stops it growing.

Comment on itv - Italy will be happy with that, they only lost by 21 points. Relegate them.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I think they only got away with it for forty minutes in one game. I also think it would never work if they tried it again because teams will study that and work out a plan. If England had a Martyn Williams type jumping over the prone players with ball in hand then I think the problem set is very effectively solved.

Italy should have been level (at worst) on 65 minutes. To then go on about a 21 point loss is extremely unfair.

Speaking as a neutral in this game I thought it was an interesting one-off tactic, and also surprisingly effective for a brief period. I doubt we will see it again though on the six nations stage.

You certainly wouldn't see it from Wales against England as they back row competition for ruck ball is the strength of both sides. I also couldn't imagine the French doing it.

I wonder if Scotland might try it at Twickenham in the next round. I really hope not as they showed more than enough in the second half against us to give England a tough game by playing normally.

Could there ever be a case for England trying such a tactic? Say if they were hanging on with five minutes to go against the All Blacks? I doubt it. I also doubt it would work as the All Blacks would just pick up drive and go. Launchbury had worked it out very well in the second half I thought.

 

[Tredman]

Bergamasco looks embarrassed by italy's tactics. They have had some good players and still have a few decent players now (and parisse), today puts shame on the good work done in years gone by to get into and compete in the 6N

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I see where you are coming from. What you are calling out as anti-rugby (and with plenty of justification before I sound like being on my high horse about it) can also be called a surprisingly simple and effective nullifying tactic when faced by superior opposition. But it can surely only ever have even a chance of working once. If you want to block the channels form a normal ruck and then arrange for a prop to pop out of the front and wander round to get back onside with his arms in the air straight between the opposition 9 and 10. Worked for the All Blacks for years.

I get the disappointment at the style, because there were some moments with ball in hand where Italy looked REALLY REALLY good today. But there was a lot of negative stuff, and both kickers had an absolute mare (which is unusual in such a tall ground as Twickenham in itself). Parisse is MILES too good for Italy. If he was French he would dominate their pack and be brilliant.

Regarding Georgia, relegation and promotion, I do think this needs to be looked at over the next couple of years. Georgia are a decent side now.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

It is obstuction as Nowell barges into Hughes.

Well as I can't find a damn picture anywhere in order to have a proper look I shall accept the point. I would like to see it again though.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

For me it was accidental obstruction but very clear. Saying that, penalty was harsh. Italian scrum seemed a more correct call.

 

[Tredman]

I see where you are coming from. What you are calling out as anti-rugby (and with plenty of justification before I sound like being on my high horse about it) can also be called a surprisingly simple and effective nullifying tactic when faced by superior opposition. But it can surely only ever have even a chance of working once. If you want to block the channels form a normal ruck and then arrange for a prop to pop out of the front and wander round to get back onside with his arms in the air straight between the opposition 9 and 10. Worked for the All Blacks for years.

I get the disappointment at the style, because there were some moments with ball in hand where Italy looked REALLY REALLY good today. But there was a lot of negative stuff, and both kickers had an absolute mare (which is unusual in such a tall ground as Twickenham in itself). Parisse is MILES too good for Italy. If he was French he would dominate their pack and be brilliant.

Regarding Georgia, relegation and promotion, I do think this needs to be looked at over the next couple of years. Georgia are a decent side now.

That's the point, the 6N is really the stand out chance to get people and youngsters interested in rugby. Tripe like today just puts them off.

Georgia are really trying to win games and become competitive, having Italy play like that in the 6N is a slap in their face.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

What we should REALLY do is fuck off Italy to a second tier 6N and bring in Japan. They are NH after all and I doubt Tokyo is that much further from Dublin than Buenos Aires is from Sydney or Johannesburg

 

[Tredman]

That would be brilliant.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Isn't there a japanese franchise in super rugby now? With that in mind, I would be surprised if the Southern hemisphere would be keen on Japan joining our party.

 

[jd1981]

Italy came with a very unorthodox tactic but perfectly legal so I've no problem with it, the simple way was to simple keep picking the ball up and charging through the space no surprises once it got inside the 22 they started rucking.
The tactic worked for 40 minutes but fell apart 2nd half.
I actually think Italy will be relatively happy with how it turned out I think had England smashed them by 50+ points wouldn't have done the championship any good.
England were deserved winners in the end and weren't lucky they eventually adapted and overcame a real curve ball.
It is interesting tho if England win a tight game against another 6N it's lucky if it's the other way round it's classed as brave and heroic.

 

[Dinowolf]

England were terrible in the first half, really sloppy, and Farrell was poor with kicking both off the tee and ball in hand.

I didn't like Italy's tactics, it spoiled the game as a spectacle, but I was amazed that it flummoxed the England players for so long. Don't they watch other games when they are not playing?

Eddie Jones should now know that we are far better off playing Nowell than playing May. Thought Lawes and Daley had good games as well as Launchbury.

One of these weeks we are going to fire early.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

If anything has been proven today it's that England's players are over coached and over reliant on the stated game plan. We looked completely clueless for most of the first half, and demonstrated a total lack of nous and rugby-intelligence. I found myself shouting "just pick and go you fucking idiots". And why didn't the coaching staff have a word from the touchline?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I think Haskell and Hartley were just confused into making a bad call. Sod working out what contact to instigate to make it constitute a ruck - pick up the ball and charge through the bloody great hole in front. Repeat.

 

[Tredman]

To be fair rugby doesn't lend itself to much interpretation of the rules by players. Try and do anything slightly different or on the edge and you are bound to give away a penalty.

 

[Dinowolf]

. And why didn't the coaching staff have a word from the touchline?

Exactly this. Even at my level of playing you 'had an injury' to get a coach on with advice, as well as the water and sponge.

Very slow from England.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Exactly this. Even at my level of playing you 'had an injury' to get a coach on with advice, as well as the water and sponge.

Very slow from England.

Was especially surprising after the English defence coach (is it Gustard?) was quoted back in November that England had made provisions if the situation ever arose after Pocock had pulled the same stunt against Ireland, suppose whole situation shows how "programmed" players are nowadays to run their plays and struggle to think on their feet.

First time I ever saw that tactic was 8 or so years ago when a South African centre landed at my club and in the first match pulled the stunt and ran in under the posts with the opposition complaining to the ref whilst the rest of us to be honest looked on baffled, fair play to the ref (he was the only other person on the field who knew the rule), afterwards said centre was explaining to me in the bar when you could and couldnt do it, I quickly told him to save his breath I was a 40 y.o tight head prop and if he thought I was going to start running about in the middle of the opposition centres he could think fucking again.

 

[Dinowolf]

Billy Vunipola could feature for Saracens this weekend.

He has been training with Saracens all week and a decision over whether he can face the Falcons on Sunday will be made after the final training session on Friday.

If he gets through the session and proves his fitness in the game, Vunipola could return to the England squad ahead of the Calcutta Cup clash at Twickenham on March 11.