The Road to Russia 2018

[Deleted Cyber]

Guess what, they lied.

But that doesnt make it right does it. Nor does it mean that we as fans of both International football and our own team cant point out in the strongest terms where we wnat the future to be. In money terms , if it aint broke dont fix it would be the cry from the premier league but outside of there plenty of clubs would like better opportunities. We have the richest league in the world with some of the highest paid players from all over the world but we are not the best in the world . Germany, Spain are ahead.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There are a litany of factors beyond the Premier League that are beyond that - rubbish coaching, not enough coaches, too many barriers (esp wrt cost) to people who want to qualify as coaches, closed doors the higher you go up the pyramids, bad attitudes towards youth football, size being preferred over skill for far too long. Some of this is being fixed now but we won't see the rewards for a while.

You can't blame everything on the Premier League, even though it obviously has flaws. I would say the top four is more fluid than people make out, sure, you invariably need money to compete at that level but if you don't perform, you miss out. If I'd told you five years ago that Man Utd would go through four successive seasons and only qualify for the Champions League through league position in one of them, you wouldn't have believed me. Spurs have comprehensively overhauled Liverpool, that looked a million miles away a decade ago.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

There are a litany of factors beyond the Premier League that are beyond that - rubbish coaching, not enough coaches, too many barriers (esp wrt cost) to people who want to qualify as coaches, closed doors the higher you go up the pyramids, bad attitudes towards youth football, size being preferred over skill for far too long. Some of this is being fixed now but we won't see the rewards for a while.

You can't blame everything on the Premier League, even though it obviously has flaws. I would say the top four is more fluid than people make out, sure, you invariably need money to compete at that level but if you don't perform, you miss out. If I'd told you five years ago that Man Utd would go through four successive seasons and only qualify for the Champions League through league position in one of them, you wouldn't have believed me. Spurs have comprehensively overhauled Liverpool, that looked a million miles away a decade ago.

Not disagreeing with that but where are Leicester now? They were one season wonders.Great, but I as a football fan want more. The premier league is the pinnicle of our football now so I want my team to be at the pinnicle. So already I am probably set for disappointment. As are the supporters of 86 other clubs who will never break into the cartel. Just because it exists doesnt make it right. Going right back to my first comment in the thread, sorry to be political but if brexit does mean fewer foreign players coming here under freedom of movement( and it may or may not I dont know and nor do you yet) I wont be upset to see the likes of Chelsea and City having more UK players in their first teams.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Big clubs dominating is not a new phenomenon, people talk about the 70s/80s as if the title changed hands all the time. As it turns out Liverpool won it most of the time (11 times between 1973 and 1990), and they did so frequently by financially outmuscling other teams and buying their best players.

United then dominated largely thanks to an insane Academy squad all breaking through at the same time and by being ahead of the curve in terms of commercial income, but since they were knocked off their perch around 2001/2, no-one has really dominated for any length of time. Our league is far less of a formality than the Bundesliga or Serie A. City should win it this year but they weren't anywhere near last season. Bayern will 100% win the title this year which I think will be six in a row for them.

 

[Jinky]

---------------Butland-----------------
------Gomez---Stones---Keane------
Walker-----Dier----Lallana------Rose
------Sterling--Kane--Alli-------------

If we're going down the Wolves/Chelsea formation which we've seen the last couple of games, there's potentially enough talent there to make it to the quarter finals of a World Cup. There's an argument to drop Alli back in to the Lallana slot and have Rashford starting too - three players of proper pace going forward - but I think you lose the best bit of Alli's game in that role. I'd be filling the rest of the squad up with the talented youngsters rather than the likes of Livermore & Henderson, but it's fairly obvious they'll be a part of the squad under Southgate.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Big clubs dominating is not a new phenomenon, people talk about the 70s/80s as if the title changed hands all the time. As it turns out Liverpool won it most of the time (11 times between 1973 and 1990), and they did so frequently by financially outmuscling other teams and buying their best players.

United then dominated largely thanks to an insane Academy squad all breaking through at the same time and by being ahead of the curve in terms of commercial income, but since they were knocked off their perch around 2001/2, no-one has really dominated for any length of time. Our league is far less of a formality than the Bundesliga or Serie A. City should win it this year but they weren't anywhere near last season. Bayern will 100% win the title this year which I think will be six in a row for them.

The following teams finished top 6 in the 1980's-from 1980-81 season- 19 different teams
Liverpool 9 times
Everton 5
Man U 5
QPR 1
Arsenal 6
Forest 3
Norwich 2
Chelsea 3
Derby 1
Spurs 6
Villa 3
WBA 1
Swansea 1
Watford 1
West Ham1
Sheff Wed 1
Wimbledon 1
Southampton 2
Ipswich 2

Since 2008 the following have finshed in the top 6 in the premier league. 12 teams
Manu 8
Cheslea 8
Aresenal 8
Liverpool 5
Everton 2
Villa 2
Spurs 8
Man City 7
Newcastle 2
Leicester 1
Southampton 1

Now I know which list is longer and more diverse. Liverpool may have been top of the pile in the 80s but there were plenty of other chalengers from all over the place , not just the big six. Now as I say with the exception of Leicester, you can predict 5 of the top 6 each year every year by sticking a pin into perm any 5 from 6 Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal Man utd and Man City. Boring boring boring. It really has to change or we will end up as monotonous as Scotland where an average side like Celtic are still far and away the best. Its not good for the game.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We're not going to agree here, personally I don't care that much about the diversity of 5th/6th place so long as there is some (which there is) and there is a way into the top four (as City and Spurs have shown there is, and Leeds, Arsenal, Newcastle etc have shown that you can fall out of). It's really not that important.

Was it a more level playing field in the 80s, yes I suppose but you still had one club with a bit of a stranglehold of winning things which doesn't exist now. It's no more than a footnote as to who finished 3rd or 4th or whatever, especially when there was no European qualification for a chunk of the decade.

I would certainly not describe the Premier League as boring...you might argue it got that way in the late 90s/early 2000s when United were miles ahead of everyone (the 2000/1 season in particular was a total canter). And guess what...they had loads of English players playing for them then.

I don't think this is an argument I can win as the goalposts keep moving

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Sorry mate you moved them! I dont think its about winning an arguement. I dont think its an argument. Its a different perpective. I see things from one way. You another. Neither side conclusive but both leading one to belive in one thing, one in another. It is good for debate. Quality wise the current top 6 or big six play really great football. But the other 14 can serve up some real shite.

 

[Tony Towner]

I think the difference from when I was a kid is expectation. Teams go up now with an agenda of finishing 4th from bottom. Managers like Pulls and Allardyce have positioned themselves as experts in staying up and earn millions because of it. Watford, Forest and Swansea all finished in the Top 4 the first season after being promoted back then, in the same way I think Sheff Utd will now in the Championship, you could dream about something more than finishing somewhere in the middle of the table after going up in late 70's and 80's. I don't particularly want to open this can of worms again, but the Championship is a much more enjoyable league, even if this year there is an argument that says that if we go up then we have bought it, I'd prefer to be competitive here than looking to scrape draws and the odd breakaway win every week in the Prem. This time around it shouldn't be like that, but I don't long for the perpetual struggle the PL brings, irrespective of some of the individual highs.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's a simple equation for me - I want to see Wolves have the best players possible playing for them and that should equal the greatest chance of success. Now, we've bucked the trend this year thanks to our unique contacts but by and large you are not going to be watching especially good footballers if you are a Championship team and unless you're exceptional, it will be a slog in that league at some point at least (anyone fancy reliving January - March 2009, thought not).

The Premier League is the only place to be, if it's just about winning games irrespective of opposition then let's go and play Wolverhampton Casuals and Sporting Khalsa.

 

[YoungWolf]

I absolutely hate the Chammpionship and really, really want to see us get out of it ASAP.

That and I want Wolves to be the best they can possibly be, even if we do reach a ceiling (which hopefully Uncle Jorge will help us combat...)

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The point for me in cyber's stat is that we had one team going to the European cup then, and everyone else was in a bunfight for all the UEFA Cup places. Now it is all about the top four. It would now be a more comparable stat to look at teams making the top four across the two eras, otherwise isn't it a bit apples and oranges?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

It's a simple equation for me - I want to see Wolves have the best players possible playing for them and that should equal the greatest chance of success. Now, we've bucked the trend this year thanks to our unique contacts but by and large you are not going to be watching especially good footballers if you are a Championship team and unless you're exceptional, it will be a slog in that league at some point at least (anyone fancy reliving January - March 2009, thought not).

The Premier League is the only place to be, if it's just about winning games irrespective of opposition then let's go and play Wolverhampton Casuals and Sporting Khalsa.

And if we get up I don't want to see success as finishing 4 th bottom. I want us to compete. Leicester, Southampton and to a lesser extent Watford and Burnley have set the benchmark. But I also want a decent national team containing footballers playing for the best teams at the highest level. The current structures and ethos prohibits that. Ruddy is our closest to a current England international and he won't get a look in. Jota and Neves , are international class.Cav Miranda Boly and Costa could and should be but naturally not for England . MGW is far from the finished article. Hause has potential, but so did Iorfa. In the world of money rules we should be resigned to seeing us pay for talent from abroad. No criticism. Look at the Portugal average wage and earning potential compared to here. Jota and Neves will both make more here currently than at home I would bet.

My original points before this conversation meandered however were.
1. I think the current structures of the premier league and the number of players England qualified getting opportunities in the top sides are so few as to be detrimental to the success of England
2 restriction on movement and free labour should it happen post brexit could be beneficial for England
3. In every other team sport the pinnacle is playing for your country. I fear that is not the case in English football and may not be the case in other countries too.
4 The game in the UK needs a restructure to make it more competitive.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

And it many well be a bit myths and legends but I remember many more varied team supporters as a teen than choose of the same age now. How often do you see a 13 year old in a replica shirt that isn't spurs arsenal Chelsea man u man c or Liverpool

 

[Langers]

And it many well be a bit myths and legends but I remember many more varied team supporters as a teen than choose of the same age now. How often do you see a 13 year old in a replica shirt that isn't spurs arsenal Chelsea man u man c or Liverpool

I reckon its far more varied these days.

 

[Freddeno]

Money controls the game nowadays, dont really like that(with cheiks or chinese with unlimited resources)..but we need to do the same to be competitive..i want PL and europe if possible..rather than rotting in the chumps..

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Where I lived in the seventies almost every bloody kid was Liverpool.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I reckon its far more varied these days.

I have never seen the following replica shirts on parkers piece Cambridge during their matches and they play every week, 4 or 5 simultaneously.
Stoke
Burnley
Palace
Watford
Brighton
Southampton
Everton

But every week I see Liverpool arsenal spurs man Utd city,Chelsea then Brazil england Italy shirts.All being worn.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Why would kids in Cambridge wear Stoke or Brighton shirts?!

I didn't see many Wimbledon or Luton shirts around here in the late 80s.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Where I lived in the seventies almost every bloody kid was Liverpool.

Liverpool Leeds arsenal Chelsea man utd spurs Newcastle West Ham Ipswich, Norwich Man City were all supported by kids in my year. I was one of 5 wolves fans. There were about 100 boys in my year