The NFL Thread

[Johnny75]

In this case it was him making the tackle. I'm hoping this starts a debate on receivers/running backs using their helmets to initiate contact when tackled. Defensive players aren't allowed to but offensive players can.
I've suggested in the past taking facemasks off the helmets to improve safety. If there was a danger of losing your teeth trying to make a tackle you'd probably think more about form tackling. You make a good point about rugby parallels mind. rugby tackling technique is not only safer it's more effective.

Rugby tackling technique is not safer given the levels of protection the AF players wear. That's empirical fact.

In fact it's the most unsafe of all the collision sports, also having the highest concussion rate.

There is an ongoing discussion on trying to bring the tackle height down to below the nipple line for safety reasons in both codes to bring this rate down.

Facegaurds are an important feature of head protection as they absorb force in an impact and there's a fair amount of work done in this area to make the helmets 'shift' under impact to mitigate impact force and subsequently risk of TBI.

It is always safer to wear a helmet for anything. That should never be in doubt.

I agree there's an important discussion to be had with leading with the helmet on the offensive side. It's certainly safer for the attacking player to lower the helmet and almost certainly not for the defender.

 

[Johnny75]

It isn't the offensive player initiating contact though, by definition it's the defender.

You can't take a play like yesterday's out of the game as it exists today. The offensive player is always going to be leaning forwards to gain extra yardage so will be leading with their head on a play like that.

I'm not educated enough on the situation or rugby to comment on how you could improve safety, I would imagine though that unless you play some form of flag football that helmets prevent more injuries than they cause.

Absolutely all of this.

Flag football is a great example of how the game is played without contact.

The same with touch rugby.

Difficult to see what could be done in circumstance like last night and as we don't know what caused his heart to stop the argument on protection is premature.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

Can in suggest you educate yourself

What you've written is as accurate as Braveheart.

Well, I've just read your much less snippy response a posts later which is much more cohesive and readable. (Why is your first response to be arsy and smart?) So I'll go past Tony's good response too...

 

[Dire Wolf]

I'm in bits about this, I really am. It seems likely that it was an absolute freak thing that has very slim chances of occurring where the hit was right to his heart and delivered at the moment that could cause his heart to stop beating. As it is now Hamlin is sedated and breathing through a tube. CPR was given for 9 minutes. I just hope that the medical response was swift enough that lasting damage has been avoided.

Unconfirmed reports I have read (though I confess I have had to stop reading and more info may subsequently have come out) stated that the NFL instructed the teams that they had 5 minutes to warm up and the game was to continue and that Bengals coach Zac Taylor consulted Bills coach McDermott and they are the ones who took the decision to abandon the game. Total respect for Taylor and all the Bengals organisation and fans in this situation. Classy organisation.

It seems that the Bills have flown back to Buffalo so have no intention of replaying the game today or anytime soon, so it appears they are willing to take the forfeit, which is the right thing to do IMO.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

You can't take a play like yesterday's out of the game as it exists today.
I'm not educated enough on the situation or rugby to comment on how you could improve safety, I would imagine though that unless you play some form of flag football that helmets prevent more injuries than they cause.

This is the whole point! The game as it exists today moves forward by making better helmets, tougher and stronger, so we'll have bigger, thicker padding, more padding, tinkering with the rules on chest or lower chest impact zones and so on.
If they adhered to their flimsy ethos of of protecting the players at all cost, they might consider (as Metal Warrior said) taking off the face masks or making the helmets softer. That would change how the game is played.
I think the game is played so violently 'because we have helmets that will protect us. So if we get bigger, better helmets we could approach tackling in an even more violent manner'.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

Unconfirmed reports I have read (though I confess I have had to stop reading and more info may subsequently have come out) stated that the NFL instructed the teams that they had 5 minutes to warm up and the game was to continue and that Bengals coach Zac Taylor consulted Bills coach McDermott and they are the ones who took the decision to abandon the game. Total respect for Taylor and all the Bengals organisation and fans in this situation. Classy organisation.

It seems that the Bills have flown back to Buffalo so have no intention of replaying the game today or anytime soon, so it appears they are willing to take the forfeit, which is the right thing to do IMO.

It seems that Joe Buck in the commentary box stated that he's "hearing that they'll be given 5 minutes to warm up before recommencing, but all the players down there are not moving. No one is going anywhere..."
Some of the Bills team flew home, some stayed.

 

[Johnny75]

This is the whole point! The game as it exists today moves forward by making better helmets, tougher and stronger, so we'll have bigger, thicker padding, more padding, tinkering with the rules on chest or lower chest impact zones and so on.
If they adhered to their flimsy ethos of of protecting the players at all cost, they might consider (as Metal Warrior said) taking off the face masks or making the helmets softer. That would change how the game is played.
I think the game is played so violently 'because we have helmets that will protect us. So if we get bigger, better helmets we could approach tackling in an even more violent manner'.

Good lord. This is actually less educated than your first post. And reiterating the same thing is still wrong no matter how many times you do it.

To educate you (again) facemasks are part of protection for TBI (concussion).

Padding is getting lighter, helmets are getting more flexible but not at the expense of protection (and to reduce brain shake).

Rules are and have been recently, adjusted to reduce using helmets as a weapon.

There is so much out there at your fingertips to access.

 

[Johnny75]

I'm in bits about this, I really am. It seems likely that it was an absolute freak thing that has very slim chances of occurring where the hit was right to his heart and delivered at the moment that could cause his heart to stop beating. As it is now Hamlin is sedated and breathing through a tube. CPR was given for 9 minutes. I just hope that the medical response was swift enough that lasting damage has been avoided.

Unconfirmed reports I have read (though I confess I have had to stop reading and more info may subsequently have come out) stated that the NFL instructed the teams that they had 5 minutes to warm up and the game was to continue and that Bengals coach Zac Taylor consulted Bills coach McDermott and they are the ones who took the decision to abandon the game. Total respect for Taylor and all the Bengals organisation and fans in this situation. Classy organisation.

It seems that the Bills have flown back to Buffalo so have no intention of replaying the game today or anytime soon, so it appears they are willing to take the forfeit, which is the right thing to do IMO.

Hopefully they call it a tie out of respect.

 

[Alan]

The five minute stoppage is a guideline IIRC, rather than a direct mandate that was handed out specifically for last night.

There hasn’t been an incident in the NFL even remotely comparable since the early 70s. My guess is that the players knew the five minute guideline and expected things would play out since a postponement like this is basically unheard of.

Ultimately the right decision was made so for now I’ll let the rest lie.

 

[Carrotdude]

Tbf the NFL have come out and said there was never any discussion of restarting the game

 

[Dire Wolf]

Tbf the NFL have come out and said there was never any discussion of restarting the game

Fair enough, I was going off something I'd read at about 4am this morning, so things undoubtedly weren't all out then.

 

[Alan]

Fair enough, I was going off something I'd read at about 4am this morning, so things undoubtedly weren't all out then.

It was an easy conclusion to draw given that McDermott and Diggs appeared to be trying to get them ready to go back out.

 

[Dire Wolf]

It was an easy conclusion to draw given that McDermott and Diggs appeared to be trying to get them ready to go back out.

My point about the classiness of Zach Taylor and the Bengals remains, they acted in a sensitive and dignified manner throughout the incident. I have the utmost respect for the man and the organisation.

 

[Alan]

Yep, I think given the severity of the situation both teams handled it about as well as you could hope.

 

[Dire Wolf]

The sight of Josh Allen, Diggs, Coach McD and so many other Bills players visibly distraught is one that will stay with me for some time. Much like the Raul head injury.

 

[WsWolf]

Only really just caught up with it. Awful, can only hope that medical intervention was in time to prevent any lasting damage.

 

[Alan]

The way he went down was the scariest thing I’ve ever seen on live TV.

Tackle made, bounced up, and then just… Truly like his soul left his body.

 

[Alan]

I wonder if this is a previously undiagnosed heart condition rather than the impact itself. Either way it obviously doesn’t matter and his ongoing recovery and health is the only thing that counts.

Commotio cordis seems the most reasonable theory I've seen so far.

Commotio cordis - Wikipedia

 

[Tony Towner]

NFL have announced Week 18 to be played as per schedule. No decision on how to handle last nights game other than it won't be played this week. Understandably they don't know what to do, caught between scheduling practicalities and not looking insensitive / tone deaf

 

[Carrotdude]

Is it likely to affect the playoff picture if they just called it a tie?