The NFL Thread

[Tony Towner]

Watson to Cleveland!!!!!

 

[big mean bunny]

I honestly don't think Watson is quite as evil as you all believe. He made mistakes (which maybe gradually got worse since nobody stopped him), but there are no accusations of beating people up or worse.

Anyway, in the NFL it is success that matters. If he wins games then he will be welcome on any team.

cue vitriolic responses

Not vitriolic I hope, but certainly tinged with my own experiences in and around abuse, particularly coercion or grooming. So much of the information about Watson exhibits traits or is worryingly close to what you are trained to be aware of for cases of abuse, particularly of grooming.

Watson has visited at least 30 different massage specialists in a less than 2 year span. It's not unusual for players to not only receive massages, teams actually have contracts with many firms to provide them I've seen mention, however what is unusual is the way he handled this. Not personally, but in secret (that is different to privately)

It would be difficult for any of them to get to know him as a client, or understand how his body works in the sense you would expect or want from a massage or physio session as a regular person, let alone a professional athlete. Contrast that with Tom Brady for example who was so in-tune with his own body, routine and medical needs that he caused conflict between his personal team and the Patriots staff and medical team, as they weren't getting access to him and he was refusing the teams advice and having his medical team handle everything, the difference is his team were relaying information to the team.

Things that are causes for concern to me are;
Watson arranged all of these privately and without knowledge of his team or medical teams. (he lately used the pandemic and other avenues being closed to him - but there is no record of him having previously used them that was presented as part of that defence)
He never consulted his team or spoke to them about this 'prep' he uses.
He never seemed to disclose who he was or his role to the women when arranging them (you can read some of his messages in the SI article)
He rarely seemed to tell anyone where he was going or to take anyone with him (advisable as a male athlete visiting a female practitioner in a one-to-one setting)
He seemed to openly suggest many of the acts they ended up performing on him were in fact consensual, meaning he was perhaps often going into these sessions with that as a goal.

It doesn't read great to me, it reads like a clear abuse of power case, and at the very 'best' it's very seedy and deviant. Add to that he had the whole 'Watson cried and was in disbelief, and couldn't believe women thought he had forced them' initial response - which seemed to be an attempt to show hubris and denial of guilt, which has now been replaced with an attitude of zero growth and 'the truth is finally out' style grandstanding from him and his team.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

Not vitriolic I hope, but certainly tinged with my own experiences in and around abuse, particularly coercion or grooming. So much of the information about Watson exhibits traits or is worryingly close to what you are trained to be aware of for cases of abuse, particularly of grooming.

Watson has visited at least 30 different massage specialists in a less than 2 year span. It's not unusual for players to not only receive massages, teams actually have contracts with many firms to provide them I've seen mention, however what is unusual is the way he handled this. Not personally, but in secret (that is different to privately)

It would be difficult for any of them to get to know him as a client, or understand how his body works in the sense you would expect or want from a massage or physio session as a regular person, let alone a professional athlete. Contrast that with Tom Brady for example who was so in-tune with his own body, routine and medical needs that he caused conflict between his personal team and the Patriots staff and medical team, as they weren't getting access to him and he was refusing the teams advice and having his medical team handle everything, the difference is his team were relaying information to the team.

Things that are causes for concern to me are;
Watson arranged all of these privately and without knowledge of his team or medical teams. (he lately used the pandemic and other avenues being closed to him - but there is no record of him having previously used them that was presented as part of that defence)
He never consulted his team or spoke to them about this 'prep' he uses.
He never seemed to disclose who he was or his role to the women when arranging them (you can read some of his messages in the SI article)
He rarely seemed to tell anyone where he was going or to take anyone with him (advisable as a male athlete visiting a female practitioner in a one-to-one setting)
He seemed to openly suggest many of the acts they ended up performing on him were in fact consensual, meaning he was perhaps often going into these sessions with that as a goal.

It doesn't read great to me, it reads like a clear abuse of power case, and at the very 'best' it's very seedy and deviant. Add to that he had the whole 'Watson cried and was in disbelief, and couldn't believe women thought he had forced them' initial response - which seemed to be an attempt to show hubris and denial of guilt, which has now been replaced with an attitude of zero growth and 'the truth is finally out' style grandstanding from him and his team.

You do make some very good points there. He knew that his actions were 'problematic'. I may have been too generous towards his actions.

Traded for 3 1sts, a 3rd, and a late round pick. Hopefully the Texans use the extra picks wisely, but I doubt it.

 

[big mean bunny]

Yeah and I think that is the issue, it seems closer to the Kellen Winslow JNR issues or clear and calculated behaviour, than it does many of the domestic violence issues that people are currently throwing about as justification for this existing.

It's also not time for any 'second chances' as he still has the cases ongoing, hasn't addressed or answered questions on it, faced a suspension etc.

 

[big mean bunny]

Anyway - Don't follow college football so have no idea what anyone may be planning, but at least in terms of the draft this feels fairly unique that so many teams have double picks, and not just that but you have Jets with 4 & 10, Giants with 5 & 7, Lions & Houston with 2 1st rounds. The Eagles with 3 etc.

I imagine we might more trading up and down on the day too as a result of teams having either multiples or none.


full order here should anyone want to have a look.

Tankathon | 2023 NFL Draft Order

2023 NFL Draft order tracker updated after every game. View traded picks in all seven rounds and a live updating Mock Draft after each game.

www.tankathon.com

 

[PuntsWolf]

Matty Ice gone. As long as they don’t do some stupid this summer and instead wait till next draft it should work well

 

[Johnny75]

JuJu SS gone to the Chiefs.

Should be a good fit there.

 

[Tony Towner]

Colts are paying him about the same as they would have Wentz for this season. If Ryan understands they are a run first team that needs a manager at QB I think it'll be a good fit

 

[Tony Towner]

Matty Ice gone. As long as they don’t do some stupid this summer and instead wait till next draft it should work well

Mariota it would appear, which gives you want you want.

 

[PuntsWolf]

As long as they don’t trade for someone like Mayfield then happy days. Any cheap free agent is the way to go.

The trade frees up $9m cap this year but has $40m of dead money. Assume that’s because of all the restructures so the money had to come out on the books eventually.

 

[Alan]

You could do a lot worse than Mariota for a stopgap.

 

[Tony Towner]

Very tough to get out of the AFC, but if after their FA moves the Bills don't this year then I don't think they ever will.

That said probably 7 of the Top 10 QB's are now in the AFC

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

The Browns were already close but not quite good enough. QB is far and away the most important position in the game and an area where improvement could make all the difference for the Browns. From a purely football point of view it was a good move for them. Watson is young and a proven match winner. Game changing players are generally worth more than the draft picks they are traded for (excluding Herschell Walker).

 

[Johnny75]

The Browns were already close but not quite good enough. QB is far and away the most important position in the game and an area where improvement could make all the difference for the Browns. From a purely football point of view it was a good move for them. Watson is young and a proven match winner. Game changing players are generally worth more than the draft picks they are traded for (excluding Herschell Walker).

Michael Lewis dislikes this post.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

Michael Lewis??

 

[Johnny75]

Author of The Blind Side. A book on the value of American Football players.

It works out the most valuable player is the blindside tackle.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

I'm guessing that means most valuable relative to earnings. Thirty two team owners would prefer a match winning QB.

Obviously a QB needs a decent O line - something Watson didn't always have in Houston.

 

[Alan]

All opinions but I tend to fall in line with the idea that your offensive line is more important to your chances of winning a SB than is your QB.

But suffice to say a lot of pieces have to be in place to win it all. You can't really afford to be missing any critical pieces to put it all together in the playoffs. Otherwise Cincinatti would be lifting the Lombardi.

 

[Johnny75]

I'm guessing that means most valuable relative to earnings. Thirty two team owners would prefer a match winning QB.

Obviously a QB needs a decent O line - something Watson didn't always have in Houston.

No, his opinion is the tackle is the most valuable as you can have an average QB and if they're upright for long enough they'll get you wins.

Have a terrible tackle then it doesn't matter how good your QB is they can't do a lot underneath an OLB or DT.

 

[Johnny75]

All opinions but I tend to fall in line with the idea that your offensive line is more important to your chances of winning a SB than is your QB.

But suffice to say a lot of pieces have to be in place to win it all. You can't really afford to be missing any critical pieces to put it all together in the playoffs. Otherwise Cincinatti would be lifting the Lombardi.

Give Burrow a good O-line and I think they win soon.