The Manager Sacked/Hired Thread 2024/25

[Elephant Pyjamas]

So?

 

[PuntsWolf]

So?

Don’t remember most your examples. Most the others I’ve discussed before.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Don’t remember most your examples.

You're pretty ignorant about England's history then.

 

[jd1981]

I disagree that England fans are “self entitled” most are very circumspect when it comes to major tournaments.
Most just want the players to replicate some of their club form.
When it falls short of that the frustration kicks in.
Reality is we have a very good squad of players and that’s not just our media saying it.
Improved performances raises expectations, regardless of the past in the here and now England are a latter stage side.
What happened in the 90’s has little affect on what happens now.

 

[prawnking]

The bottom line is that watching Southgate's England has been a slog (to put it mildly) for a while now.

He leaves with some accomplishments for sure, but after 8 years, fresh and bold ideas to build on good foundations are what's needed next

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I disagree that England fans are “self entitled” most are very circumspect when it comes to major tournaments.

Are they? The pissing and moaning because we aren't sticking 6 past Slovakia or winning on Sunday - it's very much the same attitude you see from Liverpool or United fans if they fail to beat Wolves and we criticise and ridicule them for it and rightly call then arrogant.

That's why i find it particularly strange to see the same sorts of attitudes on here.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

He leaves with some accomplishments for sure, but after 8 years, fresh and bold ideas to build on good foundations are what's needed next.

I agree.

I just don't think the next manager is likely to do that, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if he fails to build on the foundations of Southgate, so many managers before GS failed to instill a team spirit, pride and determination.

 

[jd1981]

Are they? The pissing and moaning because we aren't sticking 6 past Slovakia or winning on Sunday - it's very much the same attitude you see from Liverpool or United fans if they fail to beat Wolves and we criticise and ridicule them for it and rightly call then arrogant.

That's why i find it particularly strange to see the same sorts of attitudes on here.

No one was expecting us to put 6 past Slovakia, it’s absolutely fine to spot that things aren’t great at all and point it out and to realise that the set up isn’t working.
That’s just being a fan as most fans of other nations do.

 

[prawnking]

Are they? The pissing and moaning because we aren't sticking 6 past Slovakia or winning on Sunday - it's very much the same attitude you see from Liverpool or United fans if they fail to beat Wolves and we criticise and ridicule them for it and rightly call then arrogant.

That's why i find it particularly strange to see the same sorts of attitudes on here.

Hyperbolic and inaccurate. No one expects us to put 6 past anyone.

What England fans and commentators expected was a coherent and vaguely exciting style of play that made the most of the formidable talent in the team.

What we got was safe and tedious 'football' with a few individual moments and several rubs of the green to get us through.

Did you actually watch and enjoy the performances, or are you just playing contrary Mary?

 

[prawnking]

I agree.

I just don't think the next manager is likely to do that, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if he fails to build on the foundations of Southgate, so many managers before GS failed to instill a team spirit, pride and determination.

You may be right, but that doesn't mean Southgate should stay

 

[Tony Towner]

I think most would agree the strongest 5 European nations based on their national leagues are Italy, Germany, Spain, France and England.
Since 66 this is what they've won
(West) Germany 3 Euros 3 World Cups
Italy 2 Euros World Cups 2
France 2 Euros 2 World Cups
Spain 3 Euros 1 World Cup
England 0 Euros 0 World Cups
Below that Portugal, Denmark, The Netherlands and Greece have all won tournaments.

We as a nation have massively underperformed, we don't deserve anything, but it's not arrogant or entitled to say that a nation with our strength should win something in 60 years though. The squad Southgate had for the last 3 tournaments was good enough, he didn't do it. He's done well vs his England managerial peers, but ultimately just another who has failed to deliver

 

[Boozad]

Below that Portugal, Greece, The Netherlands and Greece have all won tournaments.

Is that North Greece and South Greece?

 

[jd1981]

We were a last minute winner away from penalties against Belgium in 1990.

We beat Cameroon with 2 penalties in 1990, they dominated us.

Scotland missed a penalty in 96, and then Gascoigne scored a worldie.

Spain had a perfectly legitimate goal disallowed against us, and we beat them on penalties.

Were 90 and 96 "fucking useless" too?

Christ even Alf Ramsey had the goal that probably didn't cross the line in 66.

These are moments, this is what wins games. This is football.

We were fucking hideous in 92, didn't qualify for 94 or 2008, lost to Iceland in 2016, bottom of the group in 2014. Shit in 2000 too, put out by Vio Ganea!

Then there is *that* Algeria game and getting pissed on by Germany 4-1.


There are a lot of England fans who are just like United and Liverpool fans, the entitlement is off the scale.

Hell of a lot of confirmation bias in this post.
You’ve plucked out all our luck but have missed out the bad luck.
The Belgium game, why oh why do people think last minute goals are lucky?
The Cameroon game yes we were shit but Cameroon were very nieve and the penalties were clear penalties. We were a width of a post from beating W Germany in SF, also wouldn’t losing on penalties be classed as bad luck?
1998 Sol Campbell Disallowed goal, lost on penalties.
2004 again Helder Postiga Shoulders the equaliser, Campbell has a last minute winner ruled out for minor contact. Rooney gets injured.

 

[Tony Towner]

Is that North Greece and South Greece?

I moved Denmark there, which is a reasonable geographical shift

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Hyperbolic and inaccurate. No one expects us to put 6 past anyone.

What England fans and commentators expected was a coherent and vaguely exciting style of play that made the most of the formidable talent in the team.

What we got was safe and tedious 'football' with a few individual moments and several rubs of the green to get us through.

Did you actually watch and enjoy the performances, or are you just playing contrary Mary?

I very much enjoyed the "moments".

I wasn't expecting fast, flowing exciting football from us against teams with 10 men behind the ball anymore than I expect it from Wolves when we play teams like that.

Definitely read and heard fans saying we should be battering teams like Slovenia and Slovakia, that's not hyperbole at all!

 

[Tredman]

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Hell of a lot of confirmation bias in this post.
You’ve plucked out all our luck but have missed out the bad luck.
The Belgium game, why oh why do people think last minute goals are lucky?
The Cameroon game yes we were shit but Cameroon were very nieve and the penalties were clear penalties. We were a width of a post from beating W Germany in SF, also wouldn’t losing on penalties be classed as bad luck?
1998 Sol Campbell Disallowed goal, lost on penalties.
2004 again Helder Postiga Shoulders the equaliser, Campbell has a last minute winner ruled out for minor contact. Rooney gets injured.

Woah! There was a point made that Southgate has had loads of luck that other managers haven't had.

I don't believe last minute winners or winning penalty shootouts are lucky, but that was inferred from Punts post, and that was what I was replying to. To suggest Southgate is the only England manager to get supposed "lucky" moments is nonsense, and his supposed luck of draws has largely come from consistent quals and winning groups, others haven't managed that

But I didn't expect Punts to use his age as a reason for his poorly made point either.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You may be right, but that doesn't mean Southgate should stay

For Southgate's own sake he shouldn't stay either, and I think it's right he's moving on generally.

But the idea that whoever comes in is going to go one step further is very, very optimistic in my view (and a point that I've read frequently not just on here but more broadly.).

Just earlier someone said Lampard would get England to a WC QF, just seems incredibly arrogant to me when so many supposed decent managers in the past have failed so miserably.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I've enjoyed Southgate's time and the way he gets slated in ways that others didn't is ridiculous. Like people still go on about Hoddle being a lost managerial talent. Come on now.

This is the natural end though.

 

[YoungWolf]

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