The January 2024 "Will we actually sign a striker or just Che Adams/Kieffer Moore" Transfer Thread

[PuntsWolf]

Bueno was clearly a pre arranged sub. The way the game was going not shoving Toti out there and bringing on a more forward thinking player was bizarre. Especially when it’s Doc you are bringing on who is worse at both aspects.

 

[lemonjelly]

Yesterday, the goal aside, we had no idea how to break them down. It wasn’t a one-off either, it was a repeat of the Burnley game. If you can’t play through two organised banks of players the options are go round or over. Semedo gets stage fright at the sight of the opponents area and Bueno doesn’t seem much better though in his defence for much of the first half yesterday he was extremely isolated as Sarabia, Hwang and Cunha were on the right. Without Neto we can’t get around the back down the wings so having an option to go over the top would be nice. Cunha and even Silva used to make runs into the channels but gradually they’ve stopped as the ball was rarely played. If we don’t use the channels a long ball to a centre forward would at least provide some variety and give opponents something to think about. Whether Sasa is that man I’m not sure but I am sure that if we continue to play the way we have in the last two games we won’t pick up many points as both Burnley and Forest are woeful.

Thing is, Hwang especially, but also Cunha and Sarabia make those runs. Either we don't look for them, or we're not confident playing those balls, or our style is to not play those balls.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

There's quite a bit of recency bias here isn't there.

Just think back to the Luton game, we played 4231, Luton are weak opposition, in the 40 mins that we had 11 players we didn't muster a single shot, not just on target, AT ALL.

RAN and Neto were both playing.

Playing 4 at the back does not instantly make us more attacking, or make us more likely to create chances that's so simplistic, our attacking mentality is what does that.

 

[Carsy]

Well ideally Gomes’ form stays consistently good and it becomes a non-issue.

Where we don’t want to be is starting Traore and Doyle together again with, uh, who exactly on the bench for them? Hodge?

Factor in the expected 2 game ban lemina will likely pick up also, and the hot and cold nature of Gomes (he’s young so it’s inevitable). Not confident with traore and Doyle is a totally different player.

Solid signing if true. But I would say there are bigger priorities.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There's quite a bit of recency bias here isn't there.

Just think back to the Luton game, we played 4231, Luton are weak opposition, in the 40 mins that we had 11 players we didn't muster a single shot, not just on target, AT ALL.

RAN and Neto were both playing.

Playing 4 at the back does not instantly make us more attacking, or make us more likely to create chances that's so simplistic, our attacking mentality is what does that.

We had loads of shots against Man Utd and Liverpool with 4 at the back, hardly any against Sheff Utd, Burnley and Forest with 5.

I don't know why you cling to that one game vs Luton as incontrovertible proof that we should never play that formation. Yesterday's set up was so obviously a waste of time.

 

[Carsy]

4231 gets the best out of our best players IMO. I'd like see us give it a proper go before we sell Sasa. We'd need one good CB in the short term to make it work.

Sa
Semedo CB Dawson RAN
Lemina Gomes
Bellegarde Cunha Neto
Kalajdzic

No sure in Sasa to be honest the way we play.

Be interesting to see how we look after next summer window. Was all carnage this summer with the ‘need’ to see etc. hopefully GoN gets a few players in so we can play the above. Especially if we’re going to be operating in the 8-15m kinda range, it shouldn’t mean we need a 1 out 1 in policy

 

[Kenny]

Plus side of the 5 is Kilman looks decent. So next summer we can reject a €50m bid for him.

 

[Carsy]

3/5 at the back has served us well, particularly against the better sides. Bring Neto and RAN back in and it'll serve us well against the lower placed teams too, (it hasn't been that bad anyway)

We were dismal at the start of the season with 4 at the back, Dawson, Toti and Kilman have been (largely) excellent since the switch.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that, just swapping the left hand side.

No issue with the 3/5 at the back, more so how we play it against lower block teams where we still seem far to conservative for my liking. Crying at for a focal point/number 9 up top who doesn’t want to drop deep all the time, and actually occupy the centre backs

 

[PuntsWolf]

There's quite a bit of recency bias here isn't there.

Just think back to the Luton game, we played 4231, Luton are weak opposition, in the 40 mins that we had 11 players we didn't muster a single shot, not just on target, AT ALL.

RAN and Neto were both playing.

Playing 4 at the back does not instantly make us more attacking, or make us more likely to create chances that's so simplistic, our attacking mentality is what does that.

Luton didn’t sit deep though. They pressed us and were out running and battling us. Yesterday for the most part Forest didn’t want to offer anything.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We had loads of shots against Man Utd and Liverpool with 4 at the back, hardly any against Sheff Utd, Burnley and Forest with 5.

I don't know why you cling to that one game vs Luton as incontrovertible proof that we should never play that formation. Yesterday's set up was so obviously a waste of time.

We lost to United and Liverpool.

I'm not "clinging" to anything, I'm just providing a very clear instance of us playing 4 against a perceived weak opposition and it definitely didn't work, that is incontrovertible.

Also all this handwringing about formation yet we still picked up 4 points from the last 2 games.

I'd query whether we actually did play 5 against Sheff Utd too, it was very much that quirky hybrid 4/5 thing that we've flirted with, we played it against Fulham too.

 

[Carsy]

Disagree, in games like yesterday you've got a centre half doing nothing. Getting an extra attacking player on the pitch has to increase your chances of breaking them down. For me it's a 3 or a 4 opposition dependant and not the rigidity he showed yesterday

Whilst I agree one of our centre halves was effectively doing nothing yesterday, I’m not sure the personnel we have would have changed how creative we are that much? A lot of our players like to run with the ball, which is more difficult where these less space etc. we’d need to move the ball round quicker, which I guess Doyle could’ve given us that maybe?

Still think an actual number 9 is key, especially against to lesser teams

 

[Carsy]

We had loads of shots against Man Utd and Liverpool with 4 at the back, hardly any against Sheff Utd, Burnley and Forest with 5.

I don't know why you cling to that one game vs Luton as incontrovertible proof that we should never play that formation. Yesterday's set up was so obviously a waste of time.

To be fair, playing Man U and Liverpool isn’t the same as playing Forest is it? Its not comparable

We had plenty of shots with 5 at the back against spurs, for example.

The issue is whether we play and 3 or a 4, we always seems to struggle to break down lesser teams

 

[Tony Towner]

Whilst I agree one of our centre halves was effectively doing nothing yesterday, I’m not sure the personnel we have would have changed how creative we are that much? A lot of our players like to run with the ball, which is more difficult where these less space etc. we’d need to move the ball round quicker, which I guess Doyle could’ve given us that maybe?

Still think an actual number 9 is key, especially against to lesser teams

Bueno or Toti off at ht for Bellegarde
Lemina off when injured for Doyle
Keep Sarabia on the pitch
You've then got 2 players who can pick passes and no spare man at the back twiddling his thumbs. 5 offensive players as you have Doyle pushed high, your 3 runners make the moves for your 2 passers to pick out.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Ultimately my argument is that its about the mentality of the manager and the players in terms of attacking intent that is far more important than the specific formation we are playing.

We had that intent and intensity for just half an hour yesterday, then it stopped.

RAN and Neto give us far more of that, also not being tired from 3 games in a week helps with that too.

Guff sub appearances from Traore and Bellegarde aren't the managers fault.

Bringing Doc on was though.

 

[Carsy]

Bueno or Toti off at ht for Bellegarde
Lemina off when injured for Doyle
Keep Sarabia on the pitch
You've then got 2 players who can pick passes and no spare man at the back twiddling his thumbs and 5 offensive players as you have Doyle pushed high

That’s what I would’ve done as well. I just harbour the belief we still wouldn’t have been that creative, especially without a number 9.

I’m not defending GoN as I think tactically he should’ve changed it yesterday, but I don’t buy the if we put another forward player on we’d instantly become more creative.

 

[Tony Towner]

Ultimately my argument is that its about the mentality of the manager and the players in terms of attacking intent that is far more important than the specific formation we are playing.

We had that intent and intensity for just half an hour yesterday, then it stopped.

RAN and Neto give us far more of that, also not being tired from 3 games in a week helps with that too.

Guff sub appearances from Traore and Bellegarde aren't the managers fault.

Bringing Doc on was though.

Bringing Traore on instead of Doyle is his fault, we didn't need what he offers

 

[Carsy]

We lost to United and Liverpool.

I'm not "clinging" to anything, I'm just providing a very clear instance of us playing 4 against a perceived weak opposition and it definitely didn't work, that is incontrovertible.

Also all this handwringing about formation yet we still picked up 4 points from the last 2 games.

I'd query whether we actually did play 5 against Sheff Utd too, it was very much that quirky hybrid 4/5 thing that we've flirted with, we played it against Fulham too.

Nothing wrong with abit of handwringing even though we’ve picked up 4 points in last 2 games. Can always strive for better. I’d rather this than have 100’s of things to be picking at whilst we’re sat with 5 points in the bottom 3

 

[Tony Towner]

That’s what I would’ve done as well. I just harbour the belief we still wouldn’t have been that creative, especially without a number 9.

I’m not defending GoN as I think tactically he should’ve changed it yesterday, but I don’t buy the if we put another forward player on we’d instantly become more creative.

It didn't happen so can't be proven either way. It improves your chances of being more creative though surely?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Yep, could be a lot worse.

We could have just lost 3-0 at home to Bournemouth.

 

[Carsy]

Bringing Traore on instead of Doyle is his fault, we didn't need what he offers

In a game where we have so much of the ball, you want your players who are best on the ball on the pitch. Traore strength is his mobility and his ‘nuisance value’ which wasn’t needed yday