The Football News Thread 2014/15 - Everything not Wolves News Related

[MARKakaJIM]

I would guess that McDonald managed to get off as the girl went back to the hotel with him and the jury must have not had enough doubt over whether she consented this to convict him, however as Ched just turned up afterwards and joined in, the jury must have been more convinced that he raped her.

It doesn't sound as if it was a question of giving consent or not but that she was in no fit state to decide for herself, so she could've appeared willing to either or both men, considering she'd stopped drinking over an hour before she arrived back at the hotel with McDonald surely she was already in such a state when consent would've been required between the pair?

 

[Lord Knows]

McDonald outlined the events

“I had never met this woman before. When I came outside from a kebab shop something was kicking off, and when I went towards a taxi this woman bumped into me,” he said.

“She asked me where I was going, and when. I said I was going back to my hotel; she said she was coming with me.

“She agreed to have consensual sex. I texted Ched and told him where I was.

“He came down and asked if he could join in. The woman agreed and I left.”

A few days later, while McDonald was visiting his mother’s house in Crewe, Evans arrived, followed closely by two plain clothes police officers from North Wales.

“They wanted us to go back with them to Rhyl on suspicion of rape,” he said. “I can’t remember everything now because it was all a blur.

“I had never been in trouble with the police before, and I couldn’t believe it.

“They seemed friendly and chatty, and said it would all be sorted out.

“We weren’t cautioned and we went back to Wales in the same car as them. They asked us about what had gone off, and we explained.

“At the police station, however, it became hostile. I barely knew what was going on.

“I’ve never been picked up before and they just left us for hours on end. We were kept apart and even had to spend the night in the cells.

“I called my solicitor but Ched’s was away. When I was told what it was about I just couldn’t believe it. They said the woman couldn’t remember anything when she woke up. There was talk of spiked drinks.

“We were kept there for ages. We didn’t know what was going on.”

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Well now I'm confused.

It looks like this

Suspect A knew the victim. They went back to the hotel together, even though she was intoxicated (level of intoxication I do not know). Because she knew him, that muddies waters about how willing she was to go back to the hotel, although leaving her handbag in the kebab shop and not remembering a lot after suggests she was very drunk indeed at that point, and you could argue consent was dubious at best.

After suspect A has had sex, he invites / lets suspect B, that the victim doesn't know, have sex with the victim.

Actually, like that, there is a difference, certainly in terms of ability to consent and recklessness as to consent, but I still think suspect A has really been less than whiter than white and should have got a conviction for some offence. Aiding and abetting, or procuring rape seem to be the appropriate charges.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

It doesn't sound as if it was a question of giving consent or not but that she was in no fit state to decide for herself, so she could've appeared willing to either or both men, considering she'd stopped drinking over an hour before she arrived back at the hotel with McDonald surely she was already in such a state when consent would've been required between the pair?

If that's the case then I'm not sure how he managed to get off then.

 

[Alan]

Guess it depends on how believable you think McDonald is. He certainly paints a good picture.

 

[ROVERT47]

Both of them are no different from those arseole's across the country that groomed under age girls for sex.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It possible the jury let the longer period of time spent with McDonald, willingly going back to the hotel with him and what not, cloud their judgement of whether or not she was consenting? Seems to have been a very lucky boy to have got off with nothing at all.

 

[Alan]

It looks like this

Suspect A knew the victim. They went back to the hotel together, even though she was intoxicated (level of intoxication I do not know). Because she knew him, that muddies waters about how willing she was to go back to the hotel, although leaving her handbag in the kebab shop and not remembering a lot after suggests she was very drunk indeed at that point, and you could argue consent was dubious at best.

After suspect A has had sex, he invites / lets suspect B, that the victim doesn't know, have sex with the victim.

Actually, like that, there is a difference, certainly in terms of ability to consent and recklessness as to consent, but I still think suspect A has really been less than whiter than white and should have got a conviction for some offence. Aiding and abetting, or procuring rape seem to be the appropriate charges.

Sounds like he was pimping her out.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

To Alan first time - Not convinced he does. His testimony also makes sure Evans got done, while he had best chance of getting off.

To Alan second time - pretty much but not with intent to the level of a pimp.

 

[Alan]

To Alan first time - Not convinced he does. His testimony also makes sure Evans got done, while he had best chance of getting off.

To Alan second time - pretty much but not with intent to the level of a pimp.

True and true.

"Ched shows up and I left" pretty convenient for you, eh?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Be interesting to get some context around the text message McDonald sent to Evans.

'got a girl' or words to that effect i think it was.

Could be either an invitation or a request for privacy to my mind depending on where it fits into a conversation.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Be interesting to get some context around the text message McDonald sent to Evans.

'got a girl' or words to that effect i think it was.

Could be either an invitation or a request for privacy to my mind depending on where it fits into a conversation.

Evans claims the hotel room was booked for his friends to stay in after a night out and nothing more, the prosecution contended that their goal was always to "get a bird" and take the unfortunate soul back there. I'm inclined to believe Option B given that no-one other than the victim ended up spending the whole night there.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Evans claims the hotel room was booked for his friends to stay in after a night out and nothing more, the prosecution contended that their goal was always to "get a bird" and take the unfortunate soul back there. I'm inclined to believe Option B given that no-one other than the victim ended up spending the whole night there.

Seems a likely outcome, if that message came from McDonald somewhat out of the blue with nothing more said than that then it looks pretty damning, he's basically just saying 'it's go time'. If the message came as a short gruff reply to Evans pestering him about his whereabouts then it looks a lot better for McDonald's defence that he's just trying to shut Evans up and get him to leave him alone.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The more I look at this the more annoyed I am at the CPS. If there was a real possibility of Evans getting convicted for rape (and clearly there was, as it happened), why on earth did they not press charges to McDonald for procuring that rape? Open and shut case for that charge.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

How much can you believe from a very drunk young lady who agrees to have sex with some-one she has only just met. One or both of them may have been guilty of rape, but the behaviour of the young lady does leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

She isn't on trial though.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Her behaviour is utterly irrelevant Frank. Utterly, utterly irrelevant. The law is about recklessness as to consent on the part of the perpetrator, not on the part of the victim.

 

[Kenny]

As far as I know being young, getting pissed and being on the pull is not a crime.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

She isn't on trial though.

Neither is Evans.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

How would this play out if both parties were similarly of their faces? Say the a girl wakes up in a hotel room, missing possessions and unsure of how she came to be, security cameras and such are used to track down the man involved but as he was also battered he has no recollection of the nights events, going to or later leaving the hotel where the deed was done.