The F1 Thread

[t3ch]

It’s ridiculous to think that the FIA Is going to do anything that would approach an overturned the result. Just not gonna happen.

kind of expect them to fight for their driver though, and maybe harp on some rules that they might want to see narrowed in scope

 

[jlo]

They can't overturn it now, and nor should they, Red Bull took bold strategy moves yesterday and had a lot of good fortune. But that doesn't mean FIA got all the calls right. There wasn't an easy option for them in the circumstances but the one that keeps coming back a bit is why didn't they just let all the backmarkers through. Sainz deserved as much a go at Max as Max did on Lewis - although the only outcome that I think would have resulted is Sainz probably comes second ahead of Lewis. Is anyone here suggesting the call to go racing was wrong - I mean I see lots of advocating for finishing under the safety car but I think you are really missing the point that they are there to race and similar procedures should've occurred whether this was the first or last race of the season (albeit, let all backmarkers through). No doubt there has been some strange calls throughout the year though, Spa stands out, and even the general safety car rule that backmarkers get a lap back I don't like (helped Lewis at Imola). Spa is the only real one where I think Masi just got it wrong, the others are a result of imperfect rules (Silverstone, and Lewis having an inconsequential penalty).

If thr cars are racing closer next year, that'll be exciting, but it might throw open a few more questionable decisions!

 

[Wolfmania]

I think team principals should not be able to communicate to the race director for next year to help. It must be hideously tricky to try sort the race after an incident when you’ve got Toto screaming about how he doesn’t want a safety car or Horner screaming about how Max shouldn’t be penalised for his latest “bending” of the rules. A bit more protection for the race director from that might help provide greater clarity of thought (or perhaps have stewards take those calls first to act as a screening process)

 

[PuntsWolf]

Generous to say Red Bull took bold strategy decisions when they pitted twice in second to stay second.

They played the only hand they had and got lucky

 

[jlo]

I think team principals should not be able to communicate to the race director for next year to help. It must be hideously tricky to try sort the race after an incident when you’ve got Toto screaming about how he doesn’t want a safety car or Horner screaming about how Max shouldn’t be penalised for his latest “bending” of the rules. A bit more protection for the race director from that might help provide greater clarity of thought (or perhaps have stewards take those calls first to act as a screening process)

So that's not new, it's just new that it gets broadcast to the viewer. But I agree, it's unnecessary

 

[AndyWolves]

A strategy of relying on a red flag and the race director to do something entirely unprecedented is not bold.

It was circumstance and not strategy that won that.

 

[AndyWolves]

They can't overturn it now, and nor should they, Red Bull took bold strategy moves yesterday and had a lot of good fortune. But that doesn't mean FIA got all the calls right. There wasn't an easy option for them in the circumstances but the one that keeps coming back a bit is why didn't they just let all the backmarkers through. Sainz deserved as much a go at Max as Max did on Lewis - although the only outcome that I think would have resulted is Sainz probably comes second ahead of Lewis. Is anyone here suggesting the call to go racing was wrong - I mean I see lots of advocating for finishing under the safety car but I think you are really missing the point that they are there to race and similar procedures should've occurred whether this was the first or last race of the season (albeit, let all backmarkers through). No doubt there has been some strange calls throughout the year though, Spa stands out, and even the general safety car rule that backmarkers get a lap back I don't like (helped Lewis at Imola). Spa is the only real one where I think Masi just got it wrong, the others are a result of imperfect rules (Silverstone, and Lewis having an inconsequential penalty).

If thr cars are racing closer next year, that'll be exciting, but it might throw open a few more questionable decisions!

The call to go racing is fine, but any semblance of fairness has gone out the window.

The racing from the previous 55 laps showed who was clearly faster, why does that get ignored?

 

[Wolfmania]

The call to go racing is fine, but any semblance of fairness has gone out the window.

The racing from the previous 55 laps showed who was clearly faster, why does that get ignored?

Motorsports is inherently unfair, you could be the best driver on the day and still lose. I appreciate there’s controversy over the results but I think a lot of people are getting mixed up about how motorsports work. There are loads of examples of last lap / near last lap incidents causing a driver to lose (Norris in Russia, Max in Baku from this year immediately spring to mind). It’s annoying to see people like Gary Linekar say “it doesn’t seem right” because they view it as being akin to going 3-0 up (because a driver has led for so long) then losing on a penalty shootout that the ref has decided to do instead. It’s far more nuanced than that because a successful appeal by Mercedes means innocent parties are penalised (i.e. Max) and I have never seen that done in sports.

The best footballing analogy I can think of is with a match being 0-0 then the ref incorrectly sending someone off then incorrectly allowing an offside goal to stand. Both are against the rules (by being incorrect) but the losing side has no power to retrospectively change the result. Their only action is that they can mitigate the damage by appealing the red card (the equivalent here probably being to secure an overhaul of the rules / possibly the removal of Masi).

 

[Tony Towner]

Why after a safety car don't they have a staggered start from the position they were previously in? If you were 11 seconds ahead you go 11 seconds earlier. Is it a safety thing as to a none F1 fan it seems so obvious to the fair thing to do that there must be a reason why they don't? I appreciate those who have been lapped would be an issue, but not insurmountable surely?

 

[Wolfmania]

Why after a safety car don't they have a staggered start from the position they were previously in? If you were 11 seconds ahead you go 11 seconds earlier. Is it a safety thing as to a none F1 fan it seems so obvious to the fair thing to do that there must be a reason why they don't? I appreciate those who have been lapped would be an issue, but not insurmountable surely?

The logic of a safety car is that you have the cars all bunched up together so that the marshalls know the opportune moments to clear up the track and have more time to do it properly. Also helps to regulate the speeds everyone is going at in a far more effective manner.

On staggered starts, it’s probably too tricky to implement in reality - at what point do you measure it? When can all cars start going? Would everyone be happy to delay restarts even further? Safety cars have been around since the 70s I think and I suspect the less dominant teams would be very resistant to change the rules given the benefits it gives to them

 

[PuntsWolf]

The VSC was bought in to try and remove as much of the unfairness of a SC. Unfortunately this SC couldn’t come at a worse time. Lap later and the race is finished. Few laps earlier and Mercedes may have risked changing tyres knowing they were going to be a sitting duck to Red Bull.

How it panned out Though is ridiculous and unfair. If they had red flagged it and let them have 4 laps of racing then that would have been far fairer yet Hamilton could still feel aggrieved that an easy win was taken from him. At least he would have had a chance though where in this instance he didn’t

 

[Johnny75]

I haven't followed the sport for years but can somebody explain why the safety car laps count?

Why not just have the cars roll round and just start the lap count again when the safety car goes back into the pits?

(I realise fuel could be an issue here)

 

[Tom Hark]

With today's tech, I'm pretty sure that the gaps between all cars could be logged when the race is neutralised, and that a dash display could be used to get them spread out to those same distances before the SC pulls off, going green when the leader crosses the line and limiting their speed should they try to jump it. The SC is just another artificial variable, same as having tyres made of marzipan, so that the procession is occasionally more 'interesting'. If they could just make cars that were able to compete properly, we wouldn't need all this other bollocks, and could watch some genuine racing instead.

 

[The Bear]

I haven't followed the sport for years but can somebody explain why the safety car laps count?

Why not just have the cars roll round and just start the lap count again when the safety car goes back into the pits?

(I realise fuel could be an issue here)

You already nailed it. They are only fuelled for the minimum amount of laps required. Less fuel equals less weight which means quicker lap times.

Sometimes they are deliberately under fueled because they can do some fuel saving during the race, particularly under a VSC or full safety car when they are going much slower.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The call to go racing is fine, but any semblance of fairness has gone out the window.

The racing from the previous 55 laps showed who was clearly faster, why does that get ignored?

Much like the score being the ultimate stat in football, the position at the chequered flag is what counts.

 

[Carrotdude]

I think if that race is at the start of the season it probably ends under the SC, there wasn’t enough time to follow the rules correctly so they changed them on the spot to manufacture a ‘race’ at the end despite it being massively one sided.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The logic of a safety car is that you have the cars all bunched up together so that the marshalls know the opportune moments to clear up the track and have more time to do it properly. Also helps to regulate the speeds everyone is going at in a far more effective manner.

On staggered starts, it’s probably too tricky to implement in reality - at what point do you measure it? When can all cars start going? Would everyone be happy to delay restarts even further? Safety cars have been around since the 70s I think and I suspect the less dominant teams would be very resistant to change the rules given the benefits it gives to them

I'd have thought a staggered release from a safety car would be very risky if you were a decent way into the race. Cars will be spread around the entire length of the track so you'd end up with your race leader coming round at full pelt and almost catching the backmarkers still awaiting to be released from the safety car.

 

[AndyWolves]

Much like the score being the ultimate stat in football, the position at the chequered flag is what counts.

Of course it is, but you don't get refs randomly deciding that "next goal wins" because they want a bit more excitement.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Of course it is, but you don't get refs randomly deciding that "next goal wins" because they want a bit more excitement.

Well the random act that triggered the issue was Latifi crashing, that's just bad luck for Mercedes. At that point they're between a rock and a hard place, end under safety car fucks one party and the late restart on a tyre mismatch fucks the other.

It's just bad luck mate, shit happens.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Doesn’t fuck the other party when they were already fucked