The F1 Thread

[Law's Bus]

Another silly rule that needs looking at.

Not really - it worked reasonably well last year. The question is why the same type of engine is failing so much more this season than last.

Unlimited engines = unlimited costs and until the big teams wake up and realise that they need the likes of Williams and Sauber, this sort of rule is necessary.

 

[The Bear]

They're all pushing the engines hard trying to catch up to Mercedes. Plus they only get four engines for the whole season this year which is stupid anyway.

 

[Kenny]

They're all pushing the engines hard trying to catch up to Mercedes. Plus they only get four engines for the whole season this year which is stupid anyway.

Losing a race on the calendar took the engine allowance down from 5 from last year.

Renault have decided to use something that isn't suitable for a Megane, never mind an F1 car and Honda have been restricted by development rules.

 

[PuntsWolf]

The rule is fine. Just the non Mercedes teams have somehow failed to build and engine that works. They knew what was needed years ago, these companies have the cleverest people in the world at building engines and they've been building them for donkeys!

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It's because they lacked the foresight of the Mercedes engineers. They stuck to developing the old engines that were still in use whilst Mercedes were already developing the new hybrid power units years ahead of their introduction. Now that testing is severely restricted compared to previous years there just isn't adequate time for anyone to make up sufficient ground on Mercedes yet. They gave themselves a massive head start over everyone else.

 

[Tredman]

It was easier for Mercedes as they were uncompetitive at the time, so had no need to develop existing tech as they wouldn't win anyway.

Renault won two champs whilst Mercedes were developing the new engines.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Yes that is all fine, but Honda are producing engines that blow up after 100 miles, and even when it works is still very short of power

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It's all tied into that situation of Mercedes having the massive head start.

The other manufacturers now have to try and rush through any development because they're severely restricted in when they can do it, so things are naturally less efficient and reliable than if they'd undergone a longer, more thorough process. It shouldn't be any surprise that the Mercedes power unit which was developed over 3-4 years by this point is far more powerful and reliable than the competitors which have been developed in two limited windows over the last couple of winters.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I guess Mercedes would have had all these issues but got over them, and as this was most likely in behind closed doors testing we don't know about it. Whereas the GP is now Honda's test.

Guess I was expecting too much from the companies to produce an even acceptable engine so quickly when you think how long it took Merc to get it right.

Looks like Mercedes dominance for the next few years. Shame Williams haven't put up much of a fight this year despite having the engine. Can Mercedes give Williams an inferior version? Button seems to think so.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Of course they can.

You're not going to spend that long developing and advantage for yourself only to go and share it with your rivals, the Mercedes units that Williams buy won't be quite as good as those in the works team but they're still going to be a step up on anything else in the field.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Talking engines - alonso's has gone pop in the first five minutes of practice one.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Sad times. So Williams at best are only likely to be the 3rd best constructor. When Renault/Honda/Both catch up they will be relegated back to mid field fodder who can at best hope to finish in the points? How the mighty have fallen

 

[PuntsWolf]

Talking engines - alonso's has gone pop in the first five minutes of practice one.

Didn't even manage the 100miles this week then...

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Sad times. So Williams at best are only likely to be the 3rd best constructor. When Renault/Honda/Both catch up they will be relegated back to mid field fodder who can at best hope to finish in the points? How the mighty have fallen

Always likely to happen when you're buying an engine from a rival though isn't it? It's not like when they were using BMW engines and they were the sole customer so they got the very best gear going, didn't Sauber or someone used to use Ferrari engines for years? Can guarantee they were never getting the same power as the works team.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Yeah I understand it and it's fine. But Sauber have always just made up the numbers. Williams were a big team for a long time and now will never be able to do that again, unless they follow McLarens direction but probably can't as they don't have the money.

 

[Nando]

Fucking hell Honda. So much for all those reliability fixes...

Mercedes have to give Williams the same engine. But as a customer they're obviously not going to have the performance of the manufacturer's team as they'll play no part in the engine's development or have access to the same engine mapping and fuel injection programs etc.

 

[The Bear]

Yeah was just going to say it's in the rules that all customer engines have to be identical to works engines.

The devil is all in the mappings and software like Nando say.

 

[The Bear]

So Ricciardo and Kvyat will both take engine penalties as well. That's at least 4 drivers already and we aren't even out of FP1.

 

[Law's Bus]

Yeah was just going to say it's in the rules that all customer engines have to be identical to works engines.

They're not though - Manor use 2014 Ferrari engines, not the 2015 versions.

 

[The Bear]

That's all they could afford I think. They already have outstandiung debts to Ferrari.