The Burnley 'Got of jail' Verdict thread

[Alan]

In terms of match prep , that generally isnt done until the 2 training days before the game anyway. There might be little things talked about with the players before but the team meeting on the Thursday is usually the starting point of putting the ideas across.

That seems remarkably late to me.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Three league games.
1 result better than last year
Two worse.
3 points down on the deal.

Still unbeaten and its a long season. I think there will be more draws. Especially at home.

 

[Kenny]

Not really. (In reply to Al)

A very very very basic breakdown if you play old skool Sat - Sat games ( remember those days kids) the first half of the week is debrief/general fitness/ working on our basic structure. 2nd half (most clubs will have a day off or light session on Wednesday) is about implementing the plans for the next game. Obviously playing 3 in a week you are incorporating recovery/debrief/next game a lot quicker.

Our general performances v Utd & Burnley havent been down to poor prep in my opinion.

 

[Aikiwolf]

Most important stat, the last time we drew our first 3 league games was 1938/39 and we finished 2nd in the league.

I think we'd all be OK with that (assuming we also win a cup [emoji846]).

 

[Alan]

Not really. (In reply to Al)

A very very very basic breakdown if you play old skool Sat - Sat games ( remember those days kids) the first half of the week is debrief/general fitness/ working on our basic structure. 2nd half (most clubs will have a day off or light session on Wednesday) is about implementing the plans for the next game. Obviously playing 3 in a week you are incorporating recovery/debrief/next game a lot quicker.

Our general performances v Utd & Burnley havent been down to poor prep in my opinion.

If that's the standard then fair enough. I only really know the typical football (American) schedule: game on Sunday (I'm keeping it to the NFL format for simplicity), day off Monday, rehab Tuesday, then planning for the next opponent starts on Wednesday and ends with a recap/rehab day on Saturday. It's not uncommon for the coaching staff to immediately start setting up a game plan for the next opponent on Sunday night.

Obviously there are a million factors that would complicate using such a schedule in the Prem, but that gives you an idea of the paradigm I'm working from.

 

[Tony Towner]

If that's the standard then fair enough. I only really know the typical football (American) schedule: game on Sunday (I'm keeping it to the NFL format for simplicity), day off Monday, rehab Tuesday, then planning for the next opponent starts on Wednesday and ends with a recap/rehab day on Saturday. It's not uncommon for the coaching staff to immediately start setting up a game plan for the next opponent on Sunday night.

Obviously there are a million factors that would complicate using such a schedule in the Prem, but that gives you an idea of the paradigm I'm working from.

NFL is way more structured though. How do you plan your first 20 offensive downs in football?

 

[Alan]

NFL is way more structured though. How do you plan your first 20 offensive downs in football?

With great difficulty!

 

[StuardoWulf]

Shit performance against a timewasting championship type side (and people wonder why Dyche dont get a big club). Having said that we still had chances to win it, we started too slowly again and of course their goal changes everything. In fairness it was damn hot to play football and we finished stronger.
Good - Rui, Traore
Good - (mostly) Boly, Raul, Mouthino, Neto, Donk
Average - Jota, Coady
Bad (mostly) - Bennett, Neves
Bad - MGW, Jonny, Doc,

The issue of preparing for Burnley is a little over done. Nuno has stated many times we play our way, our identity there will only be tiny tweaks for opposition
and most of those will be in our selection.

Obviously Nuno knows best but IMO we got selection wrong today, Adama should have started and I would've played Donk from the start.
Also obviously if we had thrashed em 4 nil I'd probably have said he got it right, with hindsight being a wonderful educator.
Finally couple of words for our opposition today

F*** Off

 

[Gonby's Games Gone By]

Some good write-ups above, particularly from Tomy Towner and slink. I don't think prep or fatigue had much to do with today; there were just too many players totally off their best. For me Jonny, Neves, Jimenez and Jota turned in their worst performances for us. In those circumstances I'm delighted with a point.

 

[Monstrum]

Its almost as if gibbs white and vinagre arent good enough for the first team yet, and we should have signed an experienced cm and lb to allow jonny and mou to rotate and rest, seeing how well have 60+ games this season. If only there was someone to point this out every fucking thread only to be insulted again and again

 

[VanWolfie]

Well the positive to take from the game is that we are still unbeaten, we don't deserve to be as we should have been 2 or 3 down at half time today but somehow we got a point from a game where Nuno got his selection wrong and then several players under performed.

I've seen various things put forward for todays performance but we weren't tired on the whole and didn't look fatigued because in the last 20 minutes were putting pressure on and players didn't look physically weak and then i've seen stuff about prep time and the fact that Burnley would have had a week. Not having that either as every man and his dog knows how Burnley play and that's exactly what they did today but we just seemed to do what we looked to do against defensively solid teams last season. You don't need a week to know and understand how Burnley play.

They play a midfield 2 of Cork and Westwood and we let them dictate and dominate and never put them under any pressure. The strange tactic of having MGW move out to the right touchline was baffling again, i think he did ok in the first half but was never going to affect the game from there. The game was crying out for players though that carry the ball and have quick movements off the ball to move their defenders in to spaces they don't want to go an make them commit but that didn't happen until Neto and Adama came on.

Players wise i'd say......

Rui - Great save from Wood and did well with Bennett to keep the ball out from Mee's header and had no chance with the goal.

Bennett - Terrible in the first half. Negative with the ball or just wasteful and then got bullied by Wood several times and was constantly in the wrong position. Did improve in the second half but still got caught a couple of times too many.

Coady - Did ok but his passing and his pass selection is not quite right at the minute, needs to do better and drive us forward at times as we look too comfortable with knocking the ball around the half way line not penetrating.

Boly - Not at his best but he was still the best of the back 3, had very few options for passing at times and wish he would drive out with the ball sometimes when this happens.

Doc - Still doesn't look fit and arguably shouldn't be playing. It is sort of exposing Bennett at times.

Jonny - Games like this just don't suit him imo. Burnley sit in so he doesn't have any room when he goes forward to cut in and he doesn't actually have to do much 1 on 1 defending. He wasn't great Thursday but Vinagre surely has be selected in these games.

Neves - Reading over the last few weeks i know Alan has tken a bit of stick for his opinion on Neves but he's right. He's nowhere near the player he is and should be right now, his passing is short at the moment and so was his set piece delivery today. He's also a yard too slow which you can't afford to be. When he scores a worldy like he did Monday it can paper over the cracks but he just wasn't at it again.

Moutinho - The one player that did look like he was actually fatigued and i think he's played too many minutes so far this season. He is a fit very fit player but with the amount of running he does we have to manage his minutes better.

MGW - Did ok in the first half even though he was playing in a really strange role but in the second half we got the needless flicks back and he's just not good enough to be doing it right now. Compare him to Neto and just the difference in intent between them and there's only one of them that should be getting starts in league games and it's not Morgan.

Jota - Doesn't look quite at his best. He's getting in to good areas but making bad decisions and again didn't really look to properly take players on. He didn't seem confident doing it which is when he's at his best, hopefully we see him back to it soon.

Jimenez - Tried hard, linked play up quite well at times and looked the biggest goal threat by a mile. Should have shot imo when he pulled it across goal and then unlucky when he hit the post a soft penalty but took it with supreme confidence and never looked like missing.

SUBS - All of these changed the game.

Dendoncker - Gave us more control in central midfield with his presence and calmness. We miss him when he's not there and that just shows how good he is.

Neto - Provided much needed drive and directness. He wants to run with the ball and move it quickly which you need to do to beat Burnley and we simply didn't do it enough before he came on. Good enough to start imo and that's upfront or just in behind 2 strikers as he works hard too. It would give the likes of Cork and Westwood something to think about with him nipping in and around them.

Adama - Should be the starting RWB at the moment. Doc clearly isn't fit and Adama is delivering when he plays. He's such a threat going forward that full backs are shitting themselves before he gets the ball. He's made 3 in a week in Shaw, Ansaldi and Pieters quake in their boots and given us a real outlet and threat.

The biggest thing that disappoints me in games like this is i think Nuno is still far too cautious and that gives sides like Burnley a bit of belief early on and they make the most of it. Pick an attacking side with ball carriers and movement and put them on the back foot early, don't let them settle and nick a goal then try and shithouse a win which is what they do. Dyche moans about gamesmanship from other sides but Burnley are up there with the worst whether it's time wasting, diving or just being dickheads but everyone knows that's Burnley and you can't moan about that as if you didn't know about it. Find a way of coping with it and stopping it then you don't give them a chance to be that shit house team. I'd love for us to have that bit more about us at times and push up 10 yards in a game and properly take it by the bollocks rather than trying to contain and then hit teams in second halves, lets' get on the front foot early on.

I also agree with Slink's commentary and analysis. Too many players were off today and it was Rui who kept us in the game. But the biggest lack in the team i my view was the absence of Dendoncker. The role he plays in the team is so consequential that, without an appropriate replacement, we are going to experience serious difficulties if he were ever injured. Without Dendoncker present, Moutinho cannot run the game in the way we have seen him do.

 

[Charlie Wolf]

Just a point on Adama’s selection, I too think he is worthy of a start at the moment especially with Docs current difficulties.

I just wonder if we are using him ‘sparingly’ to ensure we get a full season from him. Frequently teams over use these speed kings, they pull a hamstring and it buggers up their career.

Personally I think Nuno has got this just about right

 

[Tredman]

I've long hoped we would stick with Adama and it's really good to see him coming good (defensively too, he looked better than Doc at the back), but I didn't like the way we seemed to have no idea but 'give it to Adama' when he came on.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Its almost as if gibbs white and vinagre arent good enough for the first team yet, and we should have signed an experienced cm and lb to allow jonny and mou to rotate and rest, seeing how well have 60+ games this season. If only there was someone to point this out every fucking thread only to be insulted again and again

You won't get an insult from me. I don't think you're right though. We have yet to see Jordao, Neto is settling nicely, Vinagre has had one poor game this season so I am in no way righting him off in August. Doc has been poor so far and Jonny only OK. Saiss was injured , MGW was played in the wrong role and Bennett had a stinker .Jota and Neves were poor at best. Add that lot up and Nuno knows he picked the wrong team for the right reasons. We won't keep 3 premier league quality left wing backs happy . Same in midfield. We just need who we have to find decent form. Neves has done little bar his goal this season so he will improve no doubt. Donk is invaluable. He gives us much more. Unsung hero.

 

[Deano]

Nuno got the team selection wrong yesterday - that meant he had to use 2 of his subs (Adama and Dendoncker) to correct it.

It is a concern that once again vs a team like this we could only muster 2 shots on target. Too many players below par all that same time yesterday.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

If that's the standard then fair enough. I only really know the typical football (American) schedule: game on Sunday (I'm keeping it to the NFL format for simplicity), day off Monday, rehab Tuesday, then planning for the next opponent starts on Wednesday and ends with a recap/rehab day on Saturday. It's not uncommon for the coaching staff to immediately start setting up a game plan for the next opponent on Sunday night.

Obviously there are a million factors that would complicate using such a schedule in the Prem, but that gives you an idea of the paradigm I'm working from.

The difference is football (most of the rest of the world) is a sport, American Football...well, isn’t.

 

[Freddeno]

Well, gotta be happy with a point at home to Burnley after that lame game from us. Burnley clearly had the legs while we didnt. The heat made it even worse i think.

Taking too much time on the ball while trying to break through the Burnley wall, not enough runs off the ball to create options for the ballholder.

Neto and Traore positive injections with fresh legs. I think having this many games in a short time also takes a lot mentally as well. Barnes and Wood were a handful and they could have scored more goals but a point is a point.

 

[Norman Deeley]

Its almost as if gibbs white and vinagre arent good enough for the first team yet, and we should have signed an experienced cm and lb to allow jonny and mou to rotate and rest, seeing how well have 60+ games this season. If only there was someone to point this out every fucking thread only to be insulted again and again

I don't agree with a lot of what you say, Moonstrum, but I do agree with you on MGW. My personal view - and I'm probably way out on my own here - is that he won't make it as a Premier League player.

 

[The Bear]

Not sure why Vinagre is getting it in the neck. He's a young kid who had one bad game. I wanted him starting yesterday.

 

[Premier Quality]

Not sure why Vinagre is getting it in the neck. He's a young kid who had one bad game. I wanted him starting yesterday.

Agree with this completely