The Advice Thread

[Nando]

Our house (in the middle of...)...has a restrictive covenant that the previous owners broke by building an extension.
Thought that might have been flagged during planning but nope...
Our solicitor got them to take out an insurance policy that covers anything should the council say "hold on a minute you crafty buggers".
I think the council have a time limit of 20 years to raise an objection to it. Half way through that.

A covenant isn't a material considerations when a Council considers and determines a planning application, so there's no fault of the Council there (for a change). They have no ability to enforce against any breach of a covenant, only whether the extension is lawful in planning terms, so that could well have been a pointlessly expensive policy!

The Council's time limit for enforcement is ten years - but, as above, all they can consider is whether the extension is lawful in planning terms (sowhether it's been built without consent, is different to what was granted consent, or is in outside the scope of the dwelling's permitted development rights).

If your extension was built in accordance with a planning permission the Council granted, or was in accordance with the legislation which essentially grants you permission to build the extension subject to it confirming with X, Y and Z, you're not going to have the Council knocking on your door.

 

[Kenny]

A covenant isn't a material considerations when a Council considers and determines a planning application, so there's no fault of the Council there (for a change). They have no ability to enforce against any breach of a covenant, only whether the extension is lawful in planning terms, so that could well have been a pointlessly expensive policy!

The Council's time limit for enforcement is ten years - but, as above, all they can consider is whether the extension is lawful in planning terms (sowhether it's been built without consent, is different to what was granted consent, or is in outside the scope of the dwelling's permitted development rights).

If your extension was built in accordance with a planning permission the Council granted, or was in accordance with the legislation which essentially grants you permission to build the extension subject to it confirming with X, Y and Z, you're not going to have the Council knocking on your door.

Cheers for that explanation. More there in one post than anything we got from the solicitor.
He was basically "PANIC...THE COUNCIL HAVE MESSED UP AND WILL RETURN...FLAP FLAP PANIC PANIC"

 

[leedswolf]

I was under the impression that it would be down to the 'covenantee' to enforce any restrictions?

 

[EpsomWolf]

Currently involved in a triangular cat and mouse with the planners and a developer breaching regulations on a property a few doors away so thoughts from anyone with knowledge on the planning side would be appreciated.

Background is: small bungalow, nice plot. Owner dies, lots of interest from developers looking to cash in, demolish, rebuild etc etc. Lots of planning restrictions in place as front-facing property in a conservation area and so all development proposals are rejected. After 2 years developers give up and clear off and place gets bought by local builder.

Builder now sets about covertly changing property, erects concealing fence and starts extending. Firstly erects very large shed butting against a neighbours boundary, then very large porch and conservatory.

After doing the work for them and dragging the planners to the party, they concede the fence, porch and conservatory need to come down (should never have been hard work explaining to the planning department Article 4 direction (the removal of permitted development rights) had been in place since 2004 and subsequently the development work was in breach).

The pissed off builder is now looking to build several large sheds/garden buildings as an alternative.

The advice question is around the planners now. Essentially, they’ve given approval to the shed (they don’t know about plans for the others) on the proviso they’re below 2.5 metres to eaves, but I’ve evidence no sheds/outbuildings whatsoever are allowed without planning permission in front/side facing gardens in a conservation area.

Don’t want to sound too blue-rinser here and I’m the least affected by this, but where do you go if you believe the planners have made an error or are failing to act when they should?

 

[pagey]

Currently involved in a triangular cat and mouse with the planners and a developer breaching regulations on a property a few doors away so thoughts from anyone with knowledge on the planning side would be appreciated.

Background is: small bungalow, nice plot. Owner dies, lots of interest from developers looking to cash in, demolish, rebuild etc etc. Lots of planning restrictions in place as front-facing property in a conservation area and so all development proposals are rejected. After 2 years developers give up and clear off and place gets bought by local builder.

Builder now sets about covertly changing property, erects concealing fence and starts extending. Firstly erects very large shed butting against a neighbours boundary, then very large porch and conservatory.

After doing the work for them and dragging the planners to the party, they concede the fence, porch and conservatory need to come down (should never have been hard work explaining to the planning department Article 4 direction (the removal of permitted development rights) had been in place since 2004 and subsequently the development work was in breach).

The pissed off builder is now looking to build several large sheds/garden buildings as an alternative.

The advice question is around the planners now. Essentially, they’ve given approval to the shed (they don’t know about plans for the others) on the proviso they’re below 2.5 metres to eaves, but I’ve evidence no sheds/outbuildings whatsoever are allowed without planning permission in front/side facing gardens in a conservation area.

Don’t want to sound too blue-rinser here and I’m the least affected by this, but where do you go if you believe the planners have made an error or are failing to act when they should?

Not sure who'd you contact, but surely a local councillor would love to get involved and earn a few votes?

 

[Nando]

Currently involved in a triangular cat and mouse with the planners and a developer breaching regulations on a property a few doors away so thoughts from anyone with knowledge on the planning side would be appreciated.

Background is: small bungalow, nice plot. Owner dies, lots of interest from developers looking to cash in, demolish, rebuild etc etc. Lots of planning restrictions in place as front-facing property in a conservation area and so all development proposals are rejected. After 2 years developers give up and clear off and place gets bought by local builder.

Builder now sets about covertly changing property, erects concealing fence and starts extending. Firstly erects very large shed butting against a neighbours boundary, then very large porch and conservatory.

After doing the work for them and dragging the planners to the party, they concede the fence, porch and conservatory need to come down (should never have been hard work explaining to the planning department Article 4 direction (the removal of permitted development rights) had been in place since 2004 and subsequently the development work was in breach).

The pissed off builder is now looking to build several large sheds/garden buildings as an alternative.

The advice question is around the planners now. Essentially, they’ve given approval to the shed (they don’t know about plans for the others) on the proviso they’re below 2.5 metres to eaves, but I’ve evidence no sheds/outbuildings whatsoever are allowed without planning permission in front/side facing gardens in a conservation area.

Don’t want to sound too blue-rinser here and I’m the least affected by this, but where do you go if you believe the planners have made an error or are failing to act when they should?

If you DM me the address, I'll take a look at it.

 

[EpsomWolf]

Not sure who'd you contact, but surely a local councillor would love to get involved and earn a few votes?

That is an option being considered.

Thing is, confidentiality is paramount as the builder is a nasty piece of work. He’s made it known he knows there are at least 2 residents that have raised objections and has made clear there would be repercussions.

Problem is, the planners have given a green light to the shed, and the builder is going to extrapolate that green light into an entitlement to further outbuildings, staying within the 2.5m to eaves and less than 50% of the footprint regulations. However, the 2004 conservation area Article 4 Direction (the removal of permitted planning rights) means anything at all erected in a front (or side) facing garden requires planning permission.

So the current shed hasn’t received planning permission, the planners have just told him it can stay because they’ve overlooked/missread/fucked up on A4D.

The conservation officer has long since been merged into a role within the planning department and they will no doubt be in cahoots as the C.O. won’t be able to press on this without shafting the other.

I’m getting nervous about stirring the pot further especially as I’m the least affected, but it’s not on. In some respects this has moved away from the builder (who is in the end just chancing his arm) to the planners etc and the legal ramifications of all of that.

 

[EpsomWolf]

If you DM me the address, I'll take a look at it.

Thanks, will do.

 

[jlo]

A covenant isn't a material considerations when a Council considers and determines a planning application, so there's no fault of the Council there (for a change). They have no ability to enforce against any breach of a covenant, only whether the extension is lawful in planning terms, so that could well have been a pointlessly expensive policy!

The Council's time limit for enforcement is ten years - but, as above, all they can consider is whether the extension is lawful in planning terms (sowhether it's been built without consent, is different to what was granted consent, or is in outside the scope of the dwelling's permitted development rights).

If your extension was built in accordance with a planning permission the Council granted, or was in accordance with the legislation which essentially grants you permission to build the extension subject to it confirming with X, Y and Z, you're not going to have the Council knocking on your door.

Epsom, yours sounds complex!

In our case, the convenant breached is just a simple one on fencing so I guess easier to enforce but it really would take away a fair bit of the charm of the property - the fence has been up for 15 years though and the seller is indicating no complaints in that time, so I'm hoping somewhere along the lines it can just be accepted.

On our little extension the seller hasn't found the paperwork for planning permission, or the work that was done, which is semi-fair as he has inherited it - but still looking for it. It's so small though, online research tells me it falls below the level required that needs permission - I assumed before all extensions needed permission however big they were? However they have made it open to the rest of the house and here I think they should've made it doored off (legally) - albeit we want to do this ourselves anyway.

I really hate the house buying process, I guess it's better than renting all your life though.

 

[EpsomWolf]

Epsom, yours sounds complex!

In our case, the convenant breached is just a simple one on fencing so I guess easier to enforce but it really would take away a fair bit of the charm of the property - the fence has been up for 15 years though and the seller is indicating no complaints in that time, so I'm hoping somewhere along the lines it can just be accepted.

On our little extension the seller hasn't found the paperwork for planning permission, or the work that was done, which is semi-fair as he has inherited it - but still looking for it. It's so small though, online research tells me it falls below the level required that needs permission - I assumed before all extensions needed permission however big they were? However they have made it open to the rest of the house and here I think they should've made it doored off (legally) - albeit we want to do this ourselves anyway.

I really hate the house buying process, I guess it's better than renting all your life though.

Yep, it’s a shame the process does its best to drain all joy and enthusiasm from what should be an exciting time - especially when it’s your first home.

The conveyancing process on this place was an adventure, as the houses are built on land that squatters claimed on Epsom common. They essentially nicked parcels of land and settled building shacks, and were eventually awarded squatters rights in Victorian times. They then built some ropey properties will little documentation and some became derelict, then over the decades chancers and developers capitalised building or redeveloping and utilising the land, often pinching other parcels of land that had questionable ownership.

To that end we don’t even know the year the original bit was constructed, only that there is something that first showed in maps around 1870. As for who maintains the boundaries and that sort of thing, some of the maps and plans are a bit contradictory so in the end you just go with what’s been established over the years.

Doesn’t sound like you’re going to have an issue with the extension and fence tbh but I understand the desire to tick all the boxes although it’s not always possible.

Anyway, keep the faith, it’s a long journey but will pay dividends in the end.

 

[pagey]

Would add to the above that although your unlikely to encounter any problems, would they arise if/when you come to sell on?

 

[AndyWolves]

I'm seriously considering a career change as I'm getting really jaded with what I do but I've no idea what to look at going forward.

How does one even start on a career change process? I guess the first thing is finding something you want to do!

It's taken a while but i've been offered a new job today. Doing the same kind of thing but for a different organisation.

A change is as good as a rest.....hopefully!

 

[EpsomWolf]

If you DM me the address, I'll take a look at it.

Just wanted to say I’ve made several attempts at DM’s, but am unable to send unfortunately, this message comes back:

“Ooops! We ran in to some problems.”
You may not start a conversation with the following recipients: Nando

No idea what that’s all about but anyway, wanted to acknowledge your kind offer, I did try but no joy.

 

[Nando]

Just wanted to say I’ve made several attempts at DM’s, but am unable to send unfortunately, this message comes back:

“Ooops! We ran in to some problems.”
You may not start a conversation with the following recipients: Nando

No idea what that’s all about but anyway, wanted to acknowledge your kind offer, I did try but no joy.

Try again now - it looks like I'd managed to disable PM's.

 

[EpsomWolf]

Try again now - it looks like I'd managed to disable PM's.

Sent, thank you.

 

[sycophantia]

I've got jury service (again!) for the next 2 weeks in Stafford. Mostly I'll take butties but wouldn't mind eating out a couple of times in town. Recommendations for tasty and not expensive please.

 

[Tredman]

I've got jury service (again!) for the next 2 weeks in Stafford. Mostly I'll take butties but wouldn't mind eating out a couple of times in town. Recommendations for tasty and not expensive please.

For lunch? I’d go the bird over the road from the court for a cheese cob and pint but I guess that might be frowned upon.

 

[sycophantia]

For lunch? I’d go the bird over the road from the court for a cheese cob and pint but I guess that might be frowned upon.

The justice system is anti bread and dairy products?

 

[Tredman]

The justice system is anti bread and dairy products?

But pro-beer? It’s a Black Country ales pub.

Soup kitchen is not far away too.

 

[pagey]

I've got jury service (again!) for the next 2 weeks in Stafford. Mostly I'll take butties but wouldn't mind eating out a couple of times in town. Recommendations for tasty and not expensive please.

Don't tell @Deutsch Wolf

The Picture House

www.jdwetherspoon.com