Summer 2019 Transfer Thread

[t3ch]

yes, because the personnel currently on the field are playing better than the ones on the bench.

of course cav scored with his first touch he's awesome duh.

I don't believe you'll find the words "weekly show of shit" in my post. lets not be hyperbolic. they can have good individual performances while still under-performing overall. bit pointless to argue over at this point, but it just seems odd that we're suddenly gonna pretend like they were lighting the world on fire.

 

[Boozad]

Nobody said they were "lighting the world on fire".

 

[MobNet Wolf]

can't understand how anyone would defend our IF's play when running 343 the first half of the season. they were... not good.

Jesus you post some shit but this tops the lot.

The idea that halfway through the season things were going badly is utter revisionism.

As stated above, we had started to get a little found out in central midfield, but for those of us who have seen us eek out premier league results in previous top flight seasons, it was still absolute dreamworld.

Regarding the IF’s, yes it wasn’t as swashbuckling as the Championship season, but they were still fundamental to what we were doing.

 

[Alan]

"The IFs were bad" and "things were going badly" are NOT the same thing, and not what tech or I have said.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

They weren't bad* though, not in the sense that is portrayed here. And you're always going to get a "you don't know you're fucking born" vibe if you start slagging off this team at the moment because well, you don't.




*Except Traore, he was wank. But even he has improved lately.

 

[Alan]

All I can say is I disagree. They were bad. Our results were largely in spite of them at that point in time.

 

[t3ch]

Jesus you post some shit but this tops the lot.

This again?

The idea that halfway through the season things were going badly is utter revisionism.

Not what I said.

As stated above, we had started to get a little found out in central midfield, but for those of us who have seen us eek out premier league results in previous top flight seasons, it was still absolute dreamworld.

I don't yearn for staying up thanks to stephen hunt on the last day of the season, and I'm not going to once again argue over this "saying anything negative somehow implies you aren't enjoying the season or think the team is terrible" nonsense. We are, fucking obviously, having an utterly brilliant season.

Regarding the IF’s, yes it wasn’t as swashbuckling as the Championship season, but they were still fundamental to what we were doing.

Costa didn't have an assist until the 16th game of the season. goal till the 20th.
Jota didn't score until 15 games in, where he then scored another, and assisted in the next 2.

Most games they either had 1 or 0 shots.

We did so well at the start of the season despite that. Not suggesting neither had a single good performance, but it feels pretty reasonable to suggest that's a "not good" return from your front line. Saying it's "some shit that tops the lot" is rather hyperbolic.

 

[t3ch]

They weren't bad* though, not in the sense that is portrayed here. And you're always going to get a "you don't know you're fucking born" vibe if you start slagging off this team at the moment because well, you don't.

*Except Traore, he was wank. But even he has improved lately.

No one's slagging off the team.

I should've known better to just keep out of it.

 

[Premier Quality]

All I can say is I disagree. They were bad. Our results were largely in spite of them at that point in time.

Absolutely, saying they were playing well is massive revisionism.

 

[Johnny75]

It isn't revisionism at all and just looking at the IF's and how they were playing misses the point and shows the limitations of the posters.

The system worked, got found out and Nuno changed it. No matter what the IF's did in the system against Watford it would've failed as Watford had better tactics that day.

It took Nuno to change to make sure his ideas could work with the personnel he had and he did.

 

[YoungWolf]

We weren’t scoring enough though and that was largely due to our inside forwards being pretty ineffective, I don’t know why we are pretending that’s not true.

Costa and Jota were struggling (the latter we found out wasn’t fit), Traore is traore and Cav has not played that much really.
The change the two forwards has not only allowed us to have two strikers (though they do so much in those roles) and allowed us to add a midfielder which has really helped Neves and Moutinho. Whether it was MGW playing as a false nine, Saiss as an extra holding player or Dendoncker in his role on the right of the three, all three have positively contributed to our season.

We certainly weren’t struggling but had we had a fit Jota and a player of his and Raul’s quality on the right of a front three I think we would have been creating and scoring more in the first place.

 

[Johnny75]

We weren’t scoring enough though and that was largely due to our inside forwards being pretty ineffective, I don’t know why we are pretending that’s not true.

Because I don't agree with you. (I would point out that we did have over 20 shots against Burnley. It wasn't through lack of trying that we didn't score).

It was the system that wasn't effective not the players. Traore is a winger and not an IF so was never going to work playing there and with our lack of control in the middle it wouldn't have mattered if we had Ronaldo and Messi as our IF's if they don't have the ball enough. It was clear that Moutinho and Neves can't dominate as a two in the middle. It's their limitations as players, nothing wrong with that as they just fit better with a box-to-box player like Donck.

Opposition tactics dictated that we needed to change the system.

 

[YoungWolf]

But there were plenty of games where we didn’t create enough chances really. Some we managed to win anyway, some we didn’t. Fortunately, we have been an excellent team defensively and that has always kept us on games. That is a credit to how Nuno sets us up out of possession.

The system may not have been effective, but individually those players were having a tough time anyway. Costa’s confidence looks shattered, Traore looked like he really struggled to understand his positioning (amongst other things), and Cav has been injured st the start too. A fit Jota wouldn’t have had an issue IMO - as evidenced by how he played against Newcastle in the same shape and on the left against Chelsea and Bournemouth when MGW played as a false nine.

I agree the system change has helped us massively, if we lost Donck in the midfield it would have a negative impact on us. But for us to be more flexible I think we will need a new forward who can play in a front two or three because currently the alternatives aren’t up to scratch, which is sad because I love Costa and Cav in particular.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't see Jota as playing on the left against Chelsea or Bournemouth, he played up front with Raul as a two with MGW in behind. MGW sat on Fabregas for most of that game to stop him getting the ball.

I think it centre's around the midfield pair not so much around the IF's. Costa was fine against both Manchester clubs but struggled for consistency. I think he's a winger too and I don't think he's suited to the IF role at the top level. To say they were poor is wide of the mark and shows a lack of understanding that (a) we are a newly promoted club (b) most of these players have never played at this level and (c) the system didn't work as well as in the Championship, but then how was anybody to know that?

I agree that neither Traore or Costa fit and I would sell both in the summer. I don't agree we need the flexibility of a 3-4-3 as Cardiff at home proved. I think we need more attacking and more defensive wing backs as that game highlighted.

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

can't understand how anyone would defend our IF's play when running 343 the first half of the season. they were... not good.

I thought Alan was talking about Jonny and Doc as they are effectively our wingers, I didnt realise he meant the IF's

 

[YoungWolf]

I think we had a period where we played with two 'wide' forwards against Chelsea, Bournemouth, Liverpool. Whereas now they play more central as the make up of the midfield is different. MGW and then Moutinho were essentially false nines in my book. Agree to disagree though!

I think we broadly agree anyway, in terms of the system change really helping us, I just think that those individuals, for different reasons, were ineffective. With better quality players we may not have had that issue.

On your final point, that might be true to be fair. Switching the wing backs will give us more going forwards and help us stretch the opposition, which we struggled with before when we have had Doc and Jonny as the wing backs.

 

[Johnny75]

I thought both Vinagre and Traore were very good against Cardiff and showed that with real attacking wing backs we can hammer the supposed weaker teams in the league.

Harsh on Doc but that's the game.

 

[YoungWolf]

Yep. Maybe Doc is attacking enough to play in those games but Traore's speed really did cause them issues and he is a better crosser of the ball from wide areas too.

 

[The Bear]

I think DW has said before that Chelsea at home is when we switched to playing Jota up front with Jimenez, MGW in behind them ahead of Neves/Moutinho.

 

[The Bear]

I thought both Vinagre and Traore were very good against Cardiff and showed that with real attacking wing backs we can hammer the supposed weaker teams in the league.

Harsh on Doc but that's the game.

Probably why we went for Cancelo as he is very quick and likes running at people.