Season Ticket Discussion 2024/25

[Alan]

Are you sure?

Nobody with the money to buy a football club in the PL is going to be a saint.

 

[Squeak]

The old adage that if you raise your prices 10% do you think you will lose 10% of your customers? The answer in virtually all cases is no.
Lots of small business owners are frightened to take that step.

However, is £12 for a junior too much for a Prem match? And as the guy said, when he becomes 18, it will be nearer £1,000. That step is way too far and perhaps the junior ticket has been too cheap in the past? I dunno on that one.

What I will not forgive is the wheelchair or disabled supporter pricing. That is absolutely wrong. For these people, and I have a friend who's son lives for Wolves, who now won't be able to go. A lot of the unfortunate people in this category who live for match day are now going to be disenfranchised and that will have a big affect on their health. Both mentally and physically.

It's a step too far. Raising prices on average 17% is not going to lose 17% of the season ticket holders so the club will feel justified in that decision no matter how much it stinks. However, the signals coming out of Fosun and Shi are that even with the substantial increase, the playing squad is probably going to deteriorate in quality and that means the end product will. Fosun / Shi may get away with this for 24/25 but if performances are poor, then there is a good chance that more season ticket holders will walk away this time next year.

Fosun / Shi are playing a dangerous game after all the good things they did. The signs are there they are looking to make it into a business that is financially more attractive for a sale in 2 to 3 years time. Up to them to prove us all wrong and that should start by reviewing pricing for disabled fans at the very least.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's a deliberate move to change the profile of match attending fans (and one that we all suspect is a misguided move as Wolves are not the profile of club or location point to attract what they think they'll attract instead).

Renewals have been consistently 95% or higher since we went up in 2018. A drop to say, 85% would be very significant statistically, even if the bottom line doesn't change that much (and remember, they supposedly want to INCREASE the bottom line. Not keep it the same or a bit lower and piss people off along the way, because where's the benefit in that). Below that, even more so, and I suspect it'll dip below 80%.

Put it this way, if you were in charge of annual customer retentions at an ostensibly successful business with a long-standing, loyal, largely locally-based client base, and you lost thousands of said clients overnight because of a poor pricing strategy and/or appalling communications, I doubt you'd be doing that job again a year later.

 

[Boozad]

I don’t know why people want to go to the games and swear at the people they’re willingly giving their money to, it won’t make a blind bit of difference as Fosun don’t give a shit. Emails to the club mean nothing, petitions will serve no purpose, people are still renewing and people like Jeff don’t get where they are without a bit of bloody mindedness and a thick skin. Calling him a wanker for twenty minutes every fortnight isn’t going to ruffle his feathers, he’s got your money.

I understand if people still want to go, that’s everybody’s individual choice, but the only way to show Fosun your disdain is by not giving them money. If you want to go just watch the football because shouting at Jeff is a waste of your fucking breath.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Nobody with the money to buy a football club in the PL is going to be a saint.

It was a joke referencing the very unsure wording.

 

[Alan]

It was a joke referencing the very unsure wording.

Ooop, my bad.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

It was a joke referencing the very unsure wording.

You seem to like picking up on my posts - no idea why but given the likes I have to my previously ridiculed post [by yourself a couple of days ago], I seems others don't have such an issue with my literacy/grammar. I'm sorry I don't have the written intelligence that you require, but what did I write that was sufficiently 'very unsure wording' that you deem sufficient to make a jokey reference about?

PuntsWolf said new owners would be any different to which I replied "Quite possibly and almost certainly quite probably". What is wrong with that? Hilarious I'm sure.

What a prick - please put me on ignore.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

I don’t know why people want to go to the games and swear at the people they’re willingly giving their money to, it won’t make a blind bit of difference as Fosun don’t give a shit. Emails to the club mean nothing, petitions will serve no purpose, people are still renewing and people like Jeff don’t get where they are without a bit of bloody mindedness and a thick skin. Calling him a wanker for twenty minutes every fortnight isn’t going to ruffle his feathers, he’s got your money.

I understand if people still want to go, that’s everybody’s individual choice, but the only way to show Fosun your disdain is by not giving them money. If you want to go just watch the football because shouting at Jeff is a waste of your fucking breath.

I agree that withholding money by not renewing is definitely the most effective action but I'm sure that Jeff will be be ruffled if he comes in for abuse and I hope that it will filter through to Fosun HQ as well.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Ooop, my bad.

If you have to explain it, then it isn't funny.

 

[Mel Evo]

Sitting here in the Bernabéu right now and, as I’m pretty sure we must be benchmarking these guys for prices, just wanted to confirm: they have painted the bollards.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You seem to like picking up on my posts - no idea why but given the likes I have to my previously ridiculed post [by yourself a couple of days ago], I seems others don't have such an issue with my literacy/grammar. I'm sorry I don't have the written intelligence that you require, but what did I right that was sufficiently 'very unsure wording' that you deem sufficient to make a jokey reference about?

PuntsWolf said new owners would be any different to which I replied "Quite possibly and almost certainly quite probably". What is wrong with that? Hilarious I'm sure.

What a prick - please put me on ignore.

Blimey.

It was a light hearted (clearly crap) joke because you had put "quite, possibly, almost, certainly, quite and probably" all in one half of a sentence! it wasn't even a criticism, I understood what you were saying.

As for "picking on your posts" i have no recollection of previously commenting on another of your posts either, I didn't even look at who you were, I have no issue with you at all! At least I didn't have, I do now!

100 words of bite and then calling me a prick is more than a little OTT, no?

 

[Boozad]

I agree that withholding money by not renewing is definitely the most effective action but I'm sure that Jeff will be be ruffled if he comes in for abuse and I hope that it will filter through to Fosun HQ as well.

He knew full well what the fallout would be by putting prices up this much, he’ll be expecting it and it won’t bother him one bit. Like I say, I have no problem with people renewing, it really is their choice, but the only way to ruffle Fosun is to not give them money. He won’t care about your discontent when you’ve paid £40 a time to shout at him from afar.

 

[Squeak]

It's a deliberate move to change the profile of match attending fans (and one that we all suspect is a misguided move as Wolves are not the profile of club or location point to attract what they think they'll attract instead).

Renewals have been consistently 95% or higher since we went up in 2018. A drop to say, 85% would be very significant statistically, even if the bottom line doesn't change that much (and remember, they supposedly want to INCREASE the bottom line. Not keep it the same or a bit lower and piss people off along the way, because where's the benefit in that). Below that, even more so, and I suspect it'll dip below 80%.

Put it this way, if you were in charge of annual customer retentions at an ostensibly successful business with a long-standing, loyal, largely locally-based client base, and you lost thousands of said clients overnight because of a poor pricing strategy and/or appalling communications, I doubt you'd be doing that job again a year later.

You think? I know it is a somewhat popular view as today's society always believes there has to be an ulterior motive to things but I don't see that argument at this point. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, we average approx 31,000 per game. A drop to 85% would see us at 26,350. A drop of roughly 4,650. I don't see that many people walking away although several hundred might. I expect they will be replaced by people wanting to take their place so the real churn factor is practically nil.

It's all about balance and maximizing revenue ... a hard act to achieve with so much public opinion easily available today. I can see a case for increasing pricing but it's at what level and who the hardest hit are. Normally, you'd find a way to raise the top end on the ascension ladder but in this case the highest increases are to those who can least afford it. Maybe that's the end game instead? Drive those lower paying people out to create more seats for higher paying customers and gain more income?

As regards your final point, you can argue that in reverse that if these increases lead to more income, then the incumbents aren't going to be losing their jobs. I'd argue that is the more likely case in this scenario as much as it sucks for those who really cannot afford it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We don't have higher paying customers, not on any kind of reliable basis. That's the fallacy this is all driven by.

I'd be amazed if our gate money in 2024/25 exceeds by any meaningful factor what we brought in during 2023/24.

If we lose 15% of our ~22,000 season ticket holders (I think it'll be more) that's around 3,500 gone. We will not get 3,500 people who are currently not season ticket holders to simply step in off the waiting list and fill that gap, not a hope. So it's on to relying on match-by-match income, fine when we've got Man Utd or Liverpool at home, good luck with trying to fill those seats when you want £45 to watch us play Bournemouth, Fulham, Ipswich, Southampton, Brentford etc and we're 13th in the league, going nowhere fast.

I suspect you'll see way more variance in attendances than we have in any top flight season since the early 80s. 31,000 nailed on for the big games and right down to 25,000 for a load of others.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

Blimey.

It was a light hearted (clearly crap) joke because you had put "quite, possibly, almost, certainly, quite and probably" all in one half of a sentence! it wasn't even a criticism, I understood what you were saying.

As for "picking on your posts" i have no recollection of previously commenting on another of your posts either, I didn't even look at who you were, I have no issue with you at all! At least I didn't have, I do now!

100 words of bite and then calling me a prick is more than a little OTT, no?

I apologise. Sorry

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I apologise. Sorry

Fair enough

 

[PuntsWolf]

Obviously this will be a bit of a generalisation, and there will be people with unique circumstances which meant they now could get a ST when previously they couldn’t. But for the most part, people on the waiting list weren’t going when it was cheap and we were good and potentially going places and tickets were red hot demand so you needed one or you might not be able to go.

So I see it somewhat unlikely that those same people on the list are in large numbers going to accept tickets that are way higher priced, we’re not very good, going nowhere fast and there isn’t the fear you can’t get a ticket.

Plus I imagine a lot will be relocating from areas like the SB upper meaning that anyone who is getting a ticket for the first time will be entering at the highest price points.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Obviously this will be a bit of a generalisation, and there will be people with unique circumstances which meant they now could get a ST when previously they couldn’t. But for the most part, people on the waiting list weren’t going when it was cheap and we were good and potentially going places and tickets were red hot demand so you needed one or you might not be able to go.

So I see it somewhat unlikely that those same people on the list are in large numbers going to accept tickets that are way higher priced, we’re not very good, going nowhere fast and there isn’t the fear you can’t get a ticket.

Plus I imagine a lot will be relocating from areas like the SB upper meaning that anyway who is getting a ticket for the first time will be entering at the highest price points.

Completely agree.

If you ignore our propaganda seats in the golf stand (doubt more than 100 of those are even available for sale), they want a MINIMUM of around £39 per game up front if you buy a season ticket, that's if they don't charge more for new applicants than renewals, which they always have in the past.

It hasn't been hard to get match-by-match tickets for years now.

People aren't going to do it.

 

[lemonjelly]

It's certainly getting attention!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nn2e3xe2eo.amp

 

[Squeak]

We don't have higher paying customers, not on any kind of reliable basis. That's the fallacy this is all driven by.

I'd be amazed if our gate money in 2024/25 exceeds by any meaningful factor what we brought in during 2023/24.

If we lose 15% of our ~22,000 season ticket holders (I think it'll be more) that's around 3,500 gone. We will not get 3,500 people who are currently not season ticket holders to simply step in off the waiting list and fill that gap, not a hope. So it's on to relying on match-by-match income, fine when we've got Man Utd or Liverpool at home, good luck with trying to fill those seats when you want £45 to watch us play Bournemouth, Fulham, Ipswich, Southampton, Brentford etc and we're 13th in the league, going nowhere fast.

I suspect you'll see way more variance in attendances than we have in any top flight season since the early 80s. 31,000 nailed on for the big games and right down to 25,000 for a load of others.

Of course we do. They take the form of sponsorship, VIP and hospitality and those folks are quite prepared to pay for it. Then we have several rungs on the ladder below that.

I agree that our gate money won't change significantly but when saying that, we must remember that we are in the age of the multi-millionaire footballer paid 100K plus a week in the Prem. Match day income isn't huge compared to other income streams but it shouldn't be forgotten about and it does need to bring in income to cover match day expenses at the very least.

We'll see what the new season brings but IMO, what might change attendance levels are 1) team performance 2) VAR 3) weather.