REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[AndyWolves]

I want to remainin EU, as a second choice I want a good (lolz) Brexit, I absolutely don't want no deal

I think my only option is to draw a cock on the ballot paper

 

[Sniffer]

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsand...-this-be-a-springboard-for-the-party-in-2020/

Just an example to emphasise a point. 120 constituencies UKIP came second in 2015. Brexit could do better than them given their momentum. It’s all about timing and the timing is good for them I fear. I had always been a little left of centre so Brexit is an anomaly to my normal stance. I don’t see any party offering a credible pro Brexit alternative. In the eu elections I voted green. Now I don’t have a scooby

So in 2015 (which is pre Referendum and there has been an election since) UKIP/Brexit Party came 2nd to Labour in 44 seats. Out of these 2 were in London (where they won't have a chance) and 36 are in the Conservative target areas of the midlands and the north. That leaves 6 seats in Wales for the Conservatives to step aside for them then?

Its not happening Cyber. The Conservatives will not go into the Election and not put up candidates in every seat.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/29/its-doing-my-head-in-uk-voters-sick-of-brexit-and-the-election

"Mary Jenkins, 87 – another Tory supporter who voted to leave the EU – said the debate around Brexit had been dragging on too long. “In the end it gets boring,” she said. “It has taken up a lot of my time because I live on my own and I put the TV on to see what’s on the news and you get hypnotised by it.”

Her message to politicians: “Get on with it before I kick the bucket.”

If you're that bored love, hurry up eh :wallbash:

And that in a nutshell is part of the problem. It’s taken three and a half years of posturing and bills hit from every political party and a huge number of voters are sick to the eye teeth of it. They are also often stubborn and bombastic. So in a bloody minded swipe at mainstream politics and the eu they will vote with two fingers.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

But the remain vote will be out as well. You do realise that don’t you?

 

[Tredman]

Remainers don’t count.

 

[SLA]

We've had our citizenships revoked, haven't we? Traitors that we are.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

To a remain voter this is a huge chance to get a second referendum (minimum) back on the table. And it is realistically the last chance. They will be out in force. Just a question of whether they vote tactically enough.

 

[Papper]

And that in a nutshell is part of the problem. It’s taken three and a half years of posturing and bills hit from every political party and a huge number of voters are sick to the eye teeth of it. They are also often stubborn and bombastic. So in a bloody minded swipe at mainstream politics and the eu they will vote with two fingers.

There is absolutely no point voting for Farage if the Conservative Party rids itself of the Soubry's and says X will happen if you vote for us. There are a lot of MP's who are finished - Bercow for one. Brexit has not happened due to Liberals masquerading as Conservatives. Farage shows as much self interest as the remainers in Westminster.

 

[Papper]

lol, you're a funny sort of anarchist..
Democracy is nothing but the Tyranny of Majorities, the most abominable tyranny of all - pierre joseph Proudhon
of course, it isn't often even a majority in the case of the UK model...

in my anarchistic mind, I don't care what the "people" decide, that's a 'c'est la vie" scenario for me. I trust my own reason & independence. though I seem to have more respect for democracy than most "democratically" minded people

There will always be leaders and followers but when Westminster detaches itself from democracy and tries everything to overturn a democratic vote it has no accountability and no authority. Kinnock and Mandelson had no authority to impact the UK from Brussells - one was rejected massively in a general election and the other had been sacked twice. Any motive or application of change should be from the bottom up else the system is null and void.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Interesting point there. The Conservatives could lurch right and hard Brexit to try and eliminate Farage. I think that would potentially be folly though as they also have significant threat from the Lib-Dems to worry about. How they balance that in the campaign could be interesting.

 

[Papper]

Representative democracy. Look it up.

Democracy vests power in the people but an election then transfers power from the voters to a particular group of politicians so that the British public do not then directly take political decisions

Which means we end up bombing the fuck out of Iraq when the British people didn't want that and the blatant attempt to reverse a referendum. That may work for you but it doesn't for me. The buck needs to stop at Westminster and the next election will wipe out all the MP's who have treated the electorate with disdain.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I don’t think it will.

 

[Papper]

Interesting point there. The Conservatives could lurch right and hard Brexit to try and eliminate Farage. I think that would potentially be folly though as they also have significant threat from the Lib-Dems to worry about. How they balance that in the campaign could be interesting.

I think many underestimate JC and I cannot see a Lab/Lib pact - so a split vote. Sturegeon will gain a big vote but ironically wont be calling for another Scottish independence referendum because she'd lose - therefore she really has no mandate/credibility. Quite liked Cable but I just can't take Swinson seriously - makes Theresa May look like Boadecea. I think JC suffers from some serious insane economic ideals and having Thornberry/Abbott in tow - who are as divisive as they come.

 

[Tony Towner]

Interesting point there. The Conservatives could lurch right and hard Brexit to try and eliminate Farage. I think that would potentially be folly though as they also have significant threat from the Lib-Dems to worry about. How they balance that in the campaign could be interesting.

I don't think they need to. The majority of leave voters, just want to leave. They don't have too much concept around deal, no deal, hard or soft. As long as they believe we are leaving. I think Farage would take a sizeable Tory vote if May was still in charge, not under Johnson though. Much as the failure to keep the haloween promise will have damaged his ego I don't think it's done so politically or in the minds of most who want to leave. It's certainly not going to be portrayed that way in the right wing press, it was all the fault of Corbyn and anti democratic MPs

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

There won’t be a lib-lab pact at the polls. There might have to be afterward but we’ll see.

I think you are completely wrong on Sturgeon. She will call for Indyref2 and if she gets it she will win it comfortably.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Conservatives are addressing that already. It’s not his fault the promise wasn’t kept, it’s parliament’s fault. Don’t make promises that aren’t within your gift then.

 

[Papper]

I don't think they need to. The majority of leave voters, just want to leave. They don't have too much concept around deal, no deal, hard or soft. As long as they believe we are leaving. I think Farage would take a sizeable Tory vote if May was still in charge, not under Johnson though. Much as the failure to keep the haloween promise will have damaged his ego I don't think it's done so politically or in the minds of most who want to leave. It's certainly not going to be portrayed that way in the right wing press, it was all the fault of Corbyn and anti democratic MPs

As long as we are not bound by the EU on anything that'll suit me just fine (That is the quintessential LEAVE for me ) but I don't want that to happen without a trade deal in place first. I am not essentially against contributing financially to a common economic policy as long as we are not restrained to make deals elsewhere.

 

[Papper]

There won’t be a lib-lab pact at the polls. There might have to be afterward but we’ll see.

I think you are completely wrong on Sturgeon. She will call for Indyref2 and if she gets it she will win it comfortably.

The Scots voted with their wallets and rejected Independence. They get a better deal out the union than us. Maybe they are looking for German subsidies now instead of the UK.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

They voted to remain massively.

 

[AndyWolves]

As long as we are not bound by the EU on anything that'll suit me just fine (That is the quintessential LEAVE for me ) but I don't want that to happen without a trade deal in place first. I am not essentially against contributing financially to a common economic policy as long as we are not restrained to make deals elsewhere.

I'm not sure you can tell someone to fuck off in political terms and then have a good trading arrangement with them