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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

So the ERG now know in reality it's May's Brexit or no Brexit at all. That will give her around 30 extra votes, so she needs another 45, wouldn't surprise me to see a number of Labour MP's in heavily pro Brexit constituencies crossing over either.

As Penk says this place isn't indicative of the country as a whole, a lot of people feel betrayed. You can say "fuck them" or whatever but that's not going to change the way they feel.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say she gets it through next week with another backstop language tweak.
 
Not a chance now. I wouldn’t be shocked if she was no longer prime minister by then.
 
What a massive piece of... [censored]. Allowing free vote and then trying to whip her party in her direction. Still manages to lose.

That's hysterical.

Happy I got a popcorn bag at home.
 
As Penk says this place isn't indicative of the country as a whole, a lot of people feel betrayed. You can say "fuck them" or whatever but that's not going to change the way they feel.

Yeah, but like I say, I don't care.

You don't pander to people like that.
 
So the ERG now know in reality it's May's Brexit or no Brexit at all. That will give her around 30 extra votes, so she needs another 45, wouldn't surprise me to see a number of Labour MP's in heavily pro Brexit constituencies crossing over either.

As Penk says this place isn't indicative of the country as a whole, a lot of people feel betrayed. You can say "fuck them" or whatever but that's not going to change the way they feel.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say she gets it through next week with another backstop language tweak.

The nutters always shout the loudest
 
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If North Korea dropped a nuke on us she would still be around

Too fucking true. Time to being back the guillotine for these fucking cunts. Brexiteers off to persuade one of the 27 to veto an extension, is that even fucking non-treasonous?

Probably going to have to relinquish my British citizenship because of Brexit, they can all go fuck themselves
 
So there are 17.4m people shouting their mouths off tonight? Or just the hard right, racist gobshites?
I'd say you are underestimating the way people are feeling. They voted for a situation they were led to believe would be politically binding, it now is beginning to look to them like it wasn't. The average man in the pub that isn't particularly politically engaged isn't happy and feels let down. We can have a debate about whether they were misinformed, racist, ill educated, or whatever and certainly this shouldn't have ever got close to being a referendum issue, but that's not really relevant to how THEY feel and there are a hell of a lot of them.
 
I'd say you are underestimating the way people are feeling. They voted for a situation they were led to believe would be politically binding, it now is beginning to look to them like it wasn't. The average man in the pub that isn't particularly politically engaged isn't happy and feels let down. We can have a debate about whether they were misinformed, racist, ill educated, or whatever and certainly this shouldn't have ever got close to being a referendum issue, but that's not really relevant to how THEY feel and there are a hell of a lot of them.

Very much this.
 
I'd say you are underestimating the way people are feeling. They voted for a situation they were led to believe would be politically binding, it now is beginning to look to them like it wasn't. The average man in the pub that isn't particularly politically engaged isn't happy and feels let down. We can have a debate about whether they were misinformed, racist, ill educated, or whatever and certainly this shouldn't have ever got close to being a referendum issue, but that's not really relevant to how THEY feel and there are a hell of a lot of them.

And I say I don't care what they think, because they aren't qualified to decide this stuff.

Put some grown ups back in charge please.
 
I'd say you are underestimating the way people are feeling. They voted for a situation they were led to believe would be politically binding, it now is beginning to look to them like it wasn't. The average man in the pub that isn't particularly politically engaged isn't happy and feels let down. We can have a debate about whether they were misinformed, racist, ill educated, or whatever and certainly this shouldn't have ever got close to being a referendum issue, but that's not really relevant to how THEY feel and there are a hell of a lot of them.

Their living standards have eroded over the last 40 years so I get it. They've also been told that it's 'others' who are responsible for this which is why the prime concerns are immigration and taking control. Unfortunately it's got fuck all to do with the EU and much more to do with 40 years of Thatcherism.
 
So to give some balance, here is a brexiters view as you lot in the main are rabid remainers :happy:

You know my reasons for voting out. They are well documented. You know my stance softened over the last few months because
1. Ireland border is impossible
2. The whole negotiation process was a clusterfuck
3. Mays deal , quite simply isnt, its robbery.

3 years ago I asked in fact pleased for something else to vote for. Hopefully that is coming. What TIG et al turn in to is still unknown. Whatever, is still 100% better than pretty much anything currently in government and about 90% better than the opposition and I am not just dissing Corbyn. Abbott is singularly the worst politician I have ever heard. She is Grayling levels of stupid so I could never go down that road while she has an opportunity of office. Corbyn last night finally gave a speech worthy of an opposition leader but , me old son, the country needed to hear that a long while ago even if it was not in Labours gift. He has in my view, been conspicuous by his absence. He may end up been rememebered as the right leader at the wrong time. His policies do not fit well with coming out of austerity and dealing with brexit IMHO. It is to big a leap. Thats why , like him or hate him. Blair being the most Tory labour leader got the votes he did.


I would now welcome a 2nd referendum to put this all to bed but the choice can only be Remain or a Proper deal , a deal that is more akin to a soft brexit and gives us at least some of the benefits we worked hard as part of the EEC and then EU to achieve rather than completely throwing the baby away with the bath water. That will take time, so make time. It has been completely apparent that no majority in parliament would ever be pro brexit. Those charged with it were never fuilly behind it and those fully behind it were never going to be in charge, thank god. The UK parliament now needs to find a solution that can get cross party support and deliver a brexit that ticks enough Exit boxes to appease the 17.4m while keeping enough of the good stuff to appease the 16.8m remainers. It was always that , it just took a lot of shit to get there.

The country needs to learn form this and ensure we are NEVER put in such a devisive position again. To do that we need a REAL alternative. Whilst I like some green policies, they are not there yet. Personally , they elected the wrong Milliband but thats just me.

The first thing this country needs to get over is its obsession with tax cuts and low taxation. I think the system needs to be fairer and a system that goes up in 5% chunks is better than the current system. But we need to pay more tax. Its a fact. We cannot have an infrastructure for 50 million that needs to support 70m and complain when it doesnt work. We cannot moan about rising crime and yet not have a visible police presence on the streets, you cannot have a homeless problem and then find out that a signifcant number of those homeless are ex services. You cannot keep using the huge amounts of energy from abroad. You need alternatives. There is so much that a government actually needs to get a grip of and this Referendum shit has got in the way. We are 3 years behind the curve. Now of course I am a little pissed off that what I voted for wont happen but if I get some of it I will shut up and fuck off as will most of the reasonable leave voters and , believe it or not , most are reasonable people. There will still be racists, bigots, sexists, perverts, criminals and general wankers to be dealt with but at least if a sensible cross party agreement is sorted we can all move on. Thank fuck for that.
 
So to give some balance, here is a brexiters view as you lot in the main are rabid remainers :happy:

You know my reasons for voting out. They are well documented. You know my stance softened over the last few months because
1. Ireland border is impossible
2. The whole negotiation process was a clusterfuck
3. Mays deal , quite simply isnt, its robbery.

3 years ago I asked in fact pleased for something else to vote for. Hopefully that is coming. What TIG et al turn in to is still unknown. Whatever, is still 100% better than pretty much anything currently in government and about 90% better than the opposition and I am not just dissing Corbyn. Abbott is singularly the worst politician I have ever heard. She is Grayling levels of stupid so I could never go down that road while she has an opportunity of office. Corbyn last night finally gave a speech worthy of an opposition leader but , me old son, the country needed to hear that a long while ago even if it was not in Labours gift. He has in my view, been conspicuous by his absence. He may end up been rememebered as the right leader at the wrong time. His policies do not fit well with coming out of austerity and dealing with brexit IMHO. It is to big a leap. Thats why , like him or hate him. Blair being the most Tory labour leader got the votes he did.


I would now welcome a 2nd referendum to put this all to bed but the choice can only be Remain or a Proper deal , a deal that is more akin to a soft brexit and gives us at least some of the benefits we worked hard as part of the EEC and then EU to achieve rather than completely throwing the baby away with the bath water. That will take time, so make time. It has been completely apparent that no majority in parliament would ever be pro brexit. Those charged with it were never fuilly behind it and those fully behind it were never going to be in charge, thank god. The UK parliament now needs to find a solution that can get cross party support and deliver a brexit that ticks enough Exit boxes to appease the 17.4m while keeping enough of the good stuff to appease the 16.8m remainers. It was always that , it just took a lot of shit to get there.

The country needs to learn form this and ensure we are NEVER put in such a devisive position again. To do that we need a REAL alternative. Whilst I like some green policies, they are not there yet. Personally , they elected the wrong Milliband but thats just me.

The first thing this country needs to get over is its obsession with tax cuts and low taxation. I think the system needs to be fairer and a system that goes up in 5% chunks is better than the current system. But we need to pay more tax. Its a fact. We cannot have an infrastructure for 50 million that needs to support 70m and complain when it doesnt work. We cannot moan about rising crime and yet not have a visible police presence on the streets, you cannot have a homeless problem and then find out that a signifcant number of those homeless are ex services. You cannot keep using the huge amounts of energy from abroad. You need alternatives. There is so much that a government actually needs to get a grip of and this Referendum shit has got in the way. We are 3 years behind the curve. Now of course I am a little pissed off that what I voted for wont happen but if I get some of it I will shut up and fuck off as will most of the reasonable leave voters and , believe it or not , most are reasonable people. There will still be racists, bigots, sexists, perverts, criminals and general wankers to be dealt with but at least if a sensible cross party agreement is sorted we can all move on. Thank fuck for that.

Thing is, mate, there is no more time for this. An extension may be possible, but it won't be a long extension that allows the UK govt to set everything it needs up. Your choice, if you want time, is to revoke the a50, set everything up, re-structure whatever it is and then re-call the A50. However, be prepared for a much harsher reaction from the rest of the EU.
 
I thought this was a good point on the Guardian comments earlier:

We will hear a lot more about the "left behinds" or the abandoned and neglected regions, but let's be quite clear, the core Brexit vote came from the comfortably off Tory shires and the course of Brexit has been set by their prejudices, spiced up a little with free market fundamentalism and a belief that Thatcherism is unfinished work. Labour should also be aware that while many Northern constituencies were majority Leave, Labour's voters weren't. The limited number of Labour rebels may mean that Labour MPs finally understand they should not be cowed by the Tories and Kippers in their constituencies.

So we have two separate issues, Brexit and Austerity. They are not the same. Rees-Mogg and crew will happily continue with austerity policies after a No Deal Brexit, stopping Brexit does not rule out action to end the austerity mania.
 
Haven't the government declared an end to austerity?

As for separating Labour constituencies from Labour voters, is the commenter suggesting those true working class Leave voters who vote Labour aren't worth as much as those that voted remain?

Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

The cult of Corbyn continues unabated. Still 10 points down in the polls to the worst government in 40 years.
 
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