REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[leedswolf]

You ought to have seen the Spurs Green Street wannabes that Jinks, Trips and I encountered outside the Steve Bull stand the other week. I couldn't stop laughing.

Elijah Wood, proper hard.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Bear in mind I was with Jinks, who with the best will in the world and as much as I love him, is not going to put the fear of God into anyone. I could have comfortably left him to it on his own and been confident that I'd have seen him later.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Seriously????? Oh my God they must have been proper namby pambies!!! I couldn't imagine Jinks causing carnage in the Nell Gwynn tea rooms.

 

[leedswolf]

Bear in mind I was with Jinks, who with the best will in the world and as much as I love him, is not going to put the fear of God into anyone. I could have comfortably left him to it on his own and been confident that I'd have seen him later.

You know the best part? It isn't knowing that your friends have your back. It's knowing that you have your friends' back.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

That's the credo. I like to extend it by wearing shirts that are pointlessly too small, strutting around, staring down the weediest guys in a pub for no reason and I'm contemplating some seriously dreadful tattoos.

#Thuglife in a very real sense, brah.

 

[Lord Knows]

I have just sent to EU27 a draft Political Declaration on the Future Relationship between EU and UK. The Commission President has informed me that it has been agreed at negotiators’ level and agreed in principle at political level, subject to the endorsement of the Leaders.

Donald Tusk.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

T-Bag getting hammered in the Commons again. Surely she must see that this deal has no chance at all of passing Parliament.

 

[lemonjelly]

Not sure that's a good thing though Paddy. My concern is the result of a no deal being forced through by some of the zealots.

 

[Johnny75]

T-Bag getting hammered in the Commons again. Surely she must see that this deal has no chance at all of passing Parliament.

She might very well be playing the long game and doing this so she is seen to have tried her hardest but in the end it was those horrible MP's (boo hiss) that have let her and the country down.

It'll end in a revoking of A50 or a time extension. Thankfully no deal doesn't look likely at all now.

 

[Parkins left foot]

So - it looks like Parliament are going to reject the T-deal. It looks like Spain are going to reject it if there isn't a change to the text about Gibraltar. It looks like the French have huge misgivings about fishing rights clauses

So the deal that the EU Commission says can't be renegotiated to meet the criticisms of 'some' over in the UK can be challenged by other National Governments in Europe (even though it has no chance of getting through the UK anyway) - surprised that that is happening :hmmm:

Be very surprised if there is a no deal as no one comes out of that unscathed (we may well have it worse, but don't think the rest of europe wants to shoot itself in the foot at the same time - whilst it's not life threatening it would be very painful)

Can only think that the sensible course now is to agree to defer A50 (& I am aware that the deadline has been written into treaties, but (like any contract) if all parties to it agree to a change in the terms it is possible - then we all stand back & realise what could happen if we can't get this to work in some way (though like all negotiations no one gets 100% of what they ideally want).

Reality is that the only thing to do for those of us who have little influence is to int2:

 

[Tony Towner]

So the deal that the EU Commission says can't be renegotiated to meet the criticisms of 'some' over in the UK can be challenged by other National Governments in Europe (even though it has no chance of getting through the UK anyway) - surprised that that is happening :hmmm:

The deal was negotiated by Barnier on behalf of 27 sovereign nations therefore needs to be ratified by each of those nations. Ours was negotiated and agreed by own Prime Minister acting on behalf of our sovereign nation, so why should we expect to be able to renegotiate something we agreed to last week? There's your fundamental difference

 

[Parkins left foot]

The deal was negotiated by Barnier on behalf of 27 sovereign nations therefore needs to be ratified by each of those nations. Ours was negotiated and agreed by own Prime Minister acting on behalf of our sovereign nation, so why should we expect to be able to renegotiate something we agreed to last week? There's your fundamental difference

I would presume that Barnier had the individual countries 'red lines' before he started the process (or should have) otherwise he had no real idea whether any agreement he came to would succeed even if the UK side was going to agree without problems (there are - & it won't anyway).

That doesn't seem to be a sensible way to go about this (though not sure why I expected that)

No doubt that there are individual countries political issues coming into play late on - think that there are elections in the area of Spain closest to Gibraltar which are due soon which no doubt has an impact as to how the Spanish Government reacts.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Simple fact is. This deal won't get through. Attempting a no deal crash out will lead to the collapse of the government.

Extending Article 50 is the minimum that will happen. Frankly, I am beginning to think Brexit will never happen. Hope so anyway.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Simple fact is. This deal won't get through. Attempting a no deal crash out will lead to the collapse of the government.

Extending Article 50 is the minimum that will happen. Frankly, I am beginning to think Brexit will never happen. Hope so anyway.

If Brexit (in some form - however it is dressed up) doesn't happen then the divisive line down this Country remains - though possibly it does anyway

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

If Brexit in any form happens, then the divisive line down this country remains. Quite the conundrum, isn't it?

 

[Parkins left foot]

If Brexit in any form happens, then the divisive line down this country remains. Quite the conundrum, isn't it?

Wouldn't disagree with that - we do as a people have to find a way to get past a question that should never have been asked though

 

[Tony Towner]

Simple fact is. This deal won't get through. Attempting a no deal crash out will lead to the collapse of the government.

Extending Article 50 is the minimum that will happen. Frankly, I am beginning to think Brexit will never happen. Hope so anyway.

I wouldn't disagree with this, but it'll be interesting to see how it pans out politically. May has said she won't extend A50, Parliament won't let us knowingly leave without a deal, I can't see anyone negotiating a significantly better one irrespective of Party or wing and the Tories will try and avoid another GE at all costs given what happened last time. I wouldn't discount us no dealing by default due to inertia.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

There will be a vote of no confidence in the government before that happens. Probably agitated by the DUP, as no deal crash out is utterly unacceptable to them. Plus the SNP are clearly getting pretty militant in the commons over this matter.

 

[Tony Towner]

Yes, but a vote of no confidence doesn't automatically trigger a GE any longer. It would need to be done again two weeks later, which burns another fortnight.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

If they lose they are toast. Corbyn would go to the Queen.