• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

She could do the honourable thing and resign if her principles don't match the governments position. Tracey Crouch did last week with plaudits from all sides. Its a pity that T-Bag didn't stop to think that it would be worth keeping a minister and change policy rather than the opposition and ERG group do it for her.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending her, just trying to see her side.

It suited the leave camp to hide behind the govt during this process and now they have to abide by the same govt they want a free vote, which of course is completely hypocritical.

Labour are in a difficult position now though as they have called for a vote on the deal so are they going to back Mordant?
 
The cabinet have agreed then. Just Parliament and the rest of the EU nations to agree then.

More chance of plaitting piss.
 
Hmmmm

So of the remain voters in cabinet, only Gove voted in favour. ERG and Rees-Mogg are sabre-rattling about a vote of no confidence already. The DUP have said it is utterly unacceptable. The SNP are demanding the same treatment as NI.

This looks like a somewhat sticky wicket for T-Bag to bat on.
 
Article 14(4) of the backstop is... something. Seems to say: ECJ and European Commission to have jurisdiction in the UK in respect of the EU customs code, technical regulations, VAT and excise, agriculture and the environment, single electricity market and state aid.

Taking back control seems to be a significant change of passport colour and frankly fuck all else.

This looks like a deal that every remainer will vote against (hardly new news) and also totally misses the targets of every leave voter as well. It's a disaster on both fronts.
 
So her appeal to the remain siding MP'S is its either this deal or the catastrophic no deal. Her appeal to the brexiters is back this deal or remain could be back on the agenda.
 
She has put the "no Brexit" option back out there.

The third way exists.

Great for us in the echo chamber of remain we have cultivated on this forum, but one does have to ask whether this is such a complete insult to the ideals of those that campaigned for leave and indeed those that voted that way, that this deal just cannot be allowed to succeed. She is screwed. From both sides.


*pass the mind bleach*
 
No10 just expanded on PM's warning that there could be 'no Brexit', pointing out 'there is a People's Vote movement' and various votes coming up in Parliament and Labour figs have suggested they can stop Brexit.

It's coming. I am beginning to believe referendum 2: Brexit Strikes Back is a genuine possibility. Everything else is so conflicted I cannot see an alternative way out that delivers a political win at the moment. Interesting times.
 
Any one else think this was T-Bag's plan all along?
 
I didnt vote leave because I like leaves. I know no one who looks like that. Or thinks like that, or quite frankly is portrayed as some sort of sterotypical poor taste character from a bad Ricky Gervais comedy. which is what that picture tries to portray. And it doesnt help the discussion one jot.

Its about as useful as a full frontal of an 18 year old girl when discussing the objectification of women.

This is hilarious
 
It annoys me that supporters of Brexit like Johnson & Rees-Mogg have been saying what a bad deal it is

Why not come up with what their actual vision of Brexit looks like or how they would propose it
 
It annoys me that supporters of Brexit like Johnson & Rees-Mogg have been saying what a bad deal it is

Why not come up with what their actual vision of Brexit looks like or how they would propose it



Because the only decision acceptable to 75% of MPs is "REMAIN"

Therin is the problem

Such a small minority of MPs support Brexit and those that do seem to be the most awful human beings/ politicians/negotiators delete as appropriate.

The result was sooooooo disproportionate to the ideology of either house. I am beginning to think that remain is the only viable option at the moment until we actually know what "leave" looks like. All sides should look at this clusterfuck and say its a complete crock of shit. Every side lied, every side is entrenched and all it is causing is bitter feeling and extremist views. The rise of the right wing and the left wing across the world must be kept in check. We accept that leaving is currently impossible. There is neither the will or the capability on either side to effectively enact it. However the whole EU learns from this mess and agrees to outline what exit means for any country. Much the same as you get when you sign up for a mortgage or a pre nuptual agreement.

Then we get a representative from every member state and the whole EU gets an agreement of what the principles of leaving the EU are, what you pay , what happens by default , what you can keep, what you cant keep and you then get three agreed options that can be applied as a template to ANY country who wishes to leave the EU. This can highlight any special areas that would be unique to each country such as the Irish Border. That way eveyone knows what they are voting for pretty much.
hard Exit
Soft exit
Remain

During these negotiations each country gives the three areas ( if there are any) that they have potential issues with and would like to see changed. These become objectives for change and negotiation going forward.

I am sick to the back teeth about feeling defensive, bullied, considered an idiot and basically pilloried for having the balls to nail my colours to a mast 3 years ago . Its the only time in my life I can remember it being worse to be on the winning side. I am sick of bickering, I am sick of trying to defend a democratic decision without the back up of leaders in power who gave me a choice and a voice and now have not a fucking clue how to make my choice happen. I concede. Its the right thing to leave the EU in its current format. But if the last two years has shaken it enough for it to change I will happily remain under the above proviso. I will also ensure that in every election I will campaign against the Tory party. They are the scum of the earth, self serving , self righteous arrogant idiots who pretty much single handedly turned the country into 2 halves and then completely failed to assist the one half or listen to the other. The lack of compromise has been astounding.

There is much to like about the EU. We have successfully ignored that thanks to their entrenched position with Cameron in Feb 2016. They MUST learn from this. Merkel is toast. The federation of states is toast. The new EU could be a whole better picture and it will not need any taking back control. It justs needs a bit of compromise.

As for the UK we need to take a long hard look at the two party system that has let us down so badly in the last two years. There is no party that comes out of the farce with any glory.

So there you have it. I want my sanity back. I am taking back control :zytrafumay:
 
Any one else think this was T-Bag's plan all along?
No, I think this is the deal she feels is the best she can get whilst keeping the damage to the country to the minimum possible. Unicorns pissing rainbows over the white cliffs of Dover wasn't ever a runner and neither was no deal despite the rhetoric. The biggest mistake she made was saying "no deal is better than a bad deal", because in any negotiation you can only make threats if the other side see them as credible the EU never did. Yesterday she basically said the reverse.

Perhaps a better deal could have been got if one of the hard Brexiters had led the negotiation into the final months and therefore the EU felt that we were actually that mad, equally if they still maintained their stance we'd be crashing out into an economic wilderness.

As it is it's a deal that nobody thinks is any good, but it was always thus. The one thing she has done is unite the country over that.
 
Because the only decision acceptable to 75% of MPs is "REMAIN"

Therin is the problem

Such a small minority of MPs support Brexit and those that do seem to be the most awful human beings/ politicians/negotiators delete as appropriate.

The result was sooooooo disproportionate to the ideology of either house. I am beginning to think that remain is the only viable option at the moment until we actually know what "leave" looks like. All sides should look at this cluster$#@! and say its a complete crock of $#@!. Every side lied, every side is entrenched and all it is causing is bitter feeling and extremist views. The rise of the right wing and the left wing across the world must be kept in check. We accept that leaving is currently impossible. There is neither the will or the capability on either side to effectively enact it. However the whole EU learns from this mess and agrees to outline what exit means for any country. Much the same as you get when you sign up for a mortgage or a pre nuptual agreement.

Then we get a representative from every member state and the whole EU gets an agreement of what the principles of leaving the EU are, what you pay , what happens by default , what you can keep, what you cant keep and you then get three agreed options that can be applied as a template to ANY country who wishes to leave the EU. This can highlight any special areas that would be unique to each country such as the Irish Border. That way eveyone knows what they are voting for pretty much.
hard Exit
Soft exit
Remain

During these negotiations each country gives the three areas ( if there are any) that they have potential issues with and would like to see changed. These become objectives for change and negotiation going forward.

I am sick to the back teeth about feeling defensive, bullied, considered an idiot and basically pilloried for having the balls to nail my colours to a mast 3 years ago . Its the only time in my life I can remember it being worse to be on the winning side. I am sick of bickering, I am sick of trying to defend a democratic decision without the back up of leaders in power who gave me a choice and a voice and now have not a $#@!ing clue how to make my choice happen. I concede. Its the right thing to leave the EU in its current format. But if the last two years has shaken it enough for it to change I will happily remain under the above proviso. I will also ensure that in every election I will campaign against the Tory party. They are the scum of the earth, self serving , self righteous arrogant idiots who pretty much single handedly turned the country into 2 halves and then completely failed to assist the one half or listen to the other. The lack of compromise has been astounding.

There is much to like about the EU. We have successfully ignored that thanks to their entrenched position with Cameron in Feb 2016. They MUST learn from this. Merkel is toast. The federation of states is toast. The new EU could be a whole better picture and it will not need any taking back control. It justs needs a bit of compromise.

As for the UK we need to take a long hard look at the two party system that has let us down so badly in the last two years. There is no party that comes out of the farce with any glory.

So there you have it. I want my sanity back. I am taking back control :zytrafumay:

Being able to execute Brexit was a big factor for me when I voted remain. I didn't believe our government had the capability to do it successfully as no-one knew what it would look like.

As you pointed out, both sides lied and I didn't for one minute believe any of the leave promises.

I genuinely believe being in the EU and the EU being a thing is good to help ensure stability in the region, especially when we have trump & Putin doing their thing

My question to you would what should be done to make your choice happen? And what does that mean for you?
 
Raab resigns which is bizarre

Surely he had a pretty big involvement with the draft?
 
Raab resigns which is bizarre

Surely he had a pretty big involvement with the draft?
No, she appointed him one day and the next said she'd be leading the negotiations. In reality it was civil service head Olly Robbins.
 
Being able to execute Brexit was a big factor for me when I voted remain. I didn't believe our government had the capability to do it successfully as no-one knew what it would look like.

You have been proved right. I never wanted to leave the EU. I wanted us to be in step with the EU which we clearly were not and it was getting worse. I felt it was only a matter of time before it all fell apart. My answer risks being repetitive so its probably best to summarise in two lines.

Did I agree with the EEC and its principles? Largely yes
Did I agree with the EU and its principles- often no

So to keep me happy we need to go back to an ethos more akin to the EEC than the driection taken by the EU.
 
Raab resigning is a particular kind of genius!

So looks like the cabinet approval will be the same kind of cabinet approval that the Chequers deal got.

For all those wanting to "take back control" and "give power back to our own parliament" - this is what it looks like. Almost makes you nostalgic for that dry, bureaucratic but reasonably consensual EU.
 
Back
Top