REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Johnny75]

I’m misquoting Johnny to make the point to you both here...

What makes you think anybody in the EU will lose their jobs? Why would they, they're the ones gaining jobs.

Didn't Raab say it was 80% done and the rest could be sorted afterwards?

A) I'm sure you know the Pareto rule which means the easy and mostly inconsequential bits probably are done.

B) You trust a government minister on this?

C) The EU aren't saying that at all

 

[Penk Wolf]

They didn’t come out and say it was bullshit, which suggests to me, there may be something in it.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I refer you again to Barnier quoted in most papers today.

The EU is "strongly opposed" to the Chequers deal.

Mr Barnier said plans for a "common rulebook" for goods but not services were not in the EU's interests.

"Our own ecosystem has grown over decades," he said. "You can not play with it by picking pieces."

Mr Barnier said Mrs May's plans "would be the end of the single market and the European project".

"The British have a choice," he said.

"They could stay in the single market, like Norway, which is also not a member of the EU - but they would then have to take over all the associated rules and contributions to European solidarity. It is your choice.

"But if we let the British pick the raisins out of our rules, that would have serious consequences.

"Then all sorts of other third countries could insist that we offer them the same benefits."(from the BBC website)

Doesn't sound anywhere near being done does it?

The only national to report on his supposed comments about a special third-party deal last week appears to have been the Express.

 

[Premier Quality]

What makes you think anybody in the EU will lose their jobs? Why would they, they're the ones gaining jobs.

How are the eu gaining jobs from a loss of trade generally and the loss of the trade Deficit specifically?

 

[Penk Wolf]

I refer you again to Barnier quoted in most papers today.

The EU is "strongly opposed" to the Chequers deal.

Mr Barnier said plans for a "common rulebook" for goods but not services were not in the EU's interests.

"Our own ecosystem has grown over decades," he said. "You can not play with it by picking pieces."

Mr Barnier said Mrs May's plans "would be the end of the single market and the European project".

"The British have a choice," he said.

"They could stay in the single market, like Norway, which is also not a member of the EU - but they would then have to take over all the associated rules and contributions to European solidarity. It is your choice.

"But if we let the British pick the raisins out of our rules, that would have serious consequences.

"Then all sorts of other third countries could insist that we offer them the same benefits."(from the BBC website)

Doesn't sound anywhere near being done does it?

The only national to report on his supposed comments about a special third-party deal last week appears to have been the Express.

Not sure which way it leans, but I took it from the Independent.

 

[Johnny75]

How are the eu gaining jobs from a loss of trade generally and the loss of the trade Deficit specifically?

I know Unilever and Panasonic are moving their HQ's to mainland Europe and the European medical bodies are moving from London to France. More jobs for Europeans or at the least a brain drain from the UK.

Jobs are lost from the UK but gained in the EU.

 

[Premier Quality]

A few headquarters moved, what was the last one, ten jobs? Theres a trade deficit of £67billion with the EU - it won’t be as straightforward as this, but if we can’t import as much, we’ll have to make more stuff here - more jobs here, less jobs there (as they won’t be making as much to export).... £67 billion worth of jobs (in a straightforward world)

 

[Tredman]

#simples

 

[Premier Quality]

#simples

#closethread and #tellBoJo

As I said, it won’t be as straightforward as that - but say it halves - which is unlikely - that’s still £33.5 billion of trade...

 

[Tredman]

#closethread and #tellBoJo

As I said, it won’t be as straightforward as that - but say it halves - which is unlikely - that’s still £33.5 billion of trade...

I'm imagining you don't work in cross border trade.

 

[Premier Quality]

I'm imagining you don't work in cross border trade.

Explain the counter arguament

 

[Johnny75]

A few headquarters moved, what was the last one, ten jobs? Theres a trade deficit of £67billion with the EU - it won’t be as straightforward as this, but if we can’t import as much, we’ll have to make more stuff here - more jobs here, less jobs there (as they won’t be making as much to export).... £67 billion worth of jobs (in a straightforward world)

I know you say it's not that simple but this logic isnt plausible. Companies aren't going to put new infrastructure in the U.K. just to satisfy demand in a relatively small market. More likely they bump up the price to compensate for a whole new set of red tape.

Now there would be opportunity for new companies but that's going to need some serious investment and it's unlikely to come from outside the U.K. and thise in the U.K. aren't throwing money around at the moment and if you wanted to do it then now is the time, and the investment isn't happening right now.

I'm guessing you aren't one of those going to lose their jobs either andone job lost because of people's ill thought out ideology/ racist leanings/ opinion is too many.

 

[Premier Quality]

Why is it not plausible? Britons currently spend half a billion on whatever - are you saying no ones going to bother trying to fulfil that demand? Or even smaller, £100million - no one will bother trying to take that business?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think you underestimate what the Tories have done to the economy in the last eight years. You can't go from where they've put us to a manufacturing and innovative force that allows us to be self-sufficient.

As they do with so many things, they've turned it into a zero sum game whereby you now have millions of people working in sham employment to avoid starving to death. That will take a long time to fix.

 

[Premier Quality]

Maybe - but it’s not rocket science to set up a site with technology that’s already established, hire some expertise and then train people up is it? It’s what happens whenever companies move site anyway.

I know you guys hate the toreez and all that jazz, but businesses don’t largely care who’s in charge and will get on with it if they can make money.

 

[Johnny75]

Why is it not plausible? Britons currently spend half a billion on whatever - are you saying no ones going to bother trying to fulfil that demand? Or even smaller, £100million - no one will bother trying to take that business?

I don't doubt the demand will be there, it's just the price will go up. It's not simple to just set up a business and go and sell stuff. The need for money, threat of competition and the sheer resource (capital and human) needed are not to be underestimated.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

What you're asking for simply can't happen in an era of austerity (which as we all know, is a bad schoolboy version of economics). Boosting sectors to that extent requires significant Government encouragement and crucially, investment. When that era looks like ending (not any time soon) then maybe.

Don't forget that we'll be losing a hell of a lot of EU investment pro-Brexit, where's the money coming from to replace all that...

 

[Penk Wolf]

Government already pump obscene amounts of money into business development, especially to companies that by rights shouldn’t really be getting it. It will be your big plcs that will benefit from reinventing EUs work.

 

[Premier Quality]

What you're asking for simply can't happen in an era of austerity (which as we all know, is a bad schoolboy version of economics). Boosting sectors to that extent requires significant Government encouragement and crucially, investment. When that era looks like ending (not any time soon) then maybe.

Don't forget that we'll be losing a hell of a lot of EU investment pro-Brexit, where's the money coming from to replace all that...

There will have to be investment turned on once we leave, theres already news of that being possible due the the deficit reducing - and the money from the eu will be easily replaced by not paying that money to the eu in the first place... but I reckon you know that and have a clever retort?

 

[Johnny75]

Government already pump obscene amounts of money into business development, especially to companies that by rights shouldn’t really be getting it. It will be your big plcs that will benefit from reinventing EUs work.

And that will only push prices up. Government are already scrapping innovation grants and making them soft loans so now any SME is fucked if they want to do any sort of manufacturing. This government disgusts me on a daily basis but the brazen destruction of any sort of manufacturing is repugnant.

We need an opposition to challenge and weaken this government and change our dependence on credit and the financial sector. Encourage innovation and discourage the service sector growth if we are to make Brexit a success otherwise we'll be trying to compete with India for call centre business.