REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Parkins left foot]

Why should the EU not have an entrenched view when they hold a Royal Flush and we have a pair of two's? I want the best Brexit for this country as possible, I take no pleasure from this shitshow. It's the predictability and your apparent surprise about this I struggle with.

As for the point you made earlier, you aren't the only Brexit voting person left on the forum, there are at least 3 other regular posters who I think also probably did.

I will open up to the fact that I voted out - we have never been fully integrated in the 'project' as it was turned into by some elements (& I was a voter in 1975 when the parties confused the deal with disinformation as much much as they did in 2016). Cyber has given much of my thoughts already. Whilst it was purely about a trading block for mutual benefit we were going to sign up to it, once it went beyond that then the UK was never going to be able to agree.

The fact that we have idiots negotiating now (on both sides) is more than unfortunate for everyone.

This was never about free movement/immigration (thats a resource issue which is down to the Government of the day) - immigration hasn't fallen since 2016 just more from outside the EU & less from within due to the uncertainty.

Both Europe & the UK need to try and ensure that we have a mutually beneficial trading policy - it can only be a gain for both. Are the Politicians on both sides able to see this. With the current set really not sure that they can.

And I have European relatives as my sister married a Dane & has lived there for 30 yrs - was out there for my nieces wedding last year. The fact that we are not part of the same 'Bloc' doesn't mean that we can't talk to them or trade successfully. Rules for that can be complicated to everyone's disadvantage - or not to everyone's benefit

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Hold up.

1) It isn't a question of winning and losing. We all lose.

2) Any time "Remoaners" (back in the real world, rather than on forums) have tried to help, they've been batted back with a gammon breathed bellow of "PROJECT FEAR"

3) You knew this would be a disaster and you still voted for it

4) What on earth do you think was specifically the EU's fault rather than domestic Government's up to 2016?

5) This is literally what you voted for, mate.

1. You don't know that until it happens the
2. I haven't called anyone that. Stop using the propaganda
3. I knew it would be difficult. I should not have had any faith in those charged on all sides
4. Completely failed from 1997 to 2013 to listen to the UK and it's concerns about the direction the EU was going. It carried on regardless, forcing the UK into a corner thinking we would never vote leave. But misjudgement compounded by the inflexibility and hard stance
5. Not yet. We haven't left yet

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

And I have European relatives as my sister married a Dane & has lived there for 30 yrs - was out there for my nieces wedding last year. The fact that we are not part of the same 'Bloc' doesn't mean that we can't talk to them or trade successfully. Rules for that can be complicated to everyone's disadvantage - or not to everyone's benefit

We had a fine relationship though.

We've messed with it to no-one's benefit, because some of our population (who never vote normally) don't like "brown people", and yet ironically "brown people" have arrived in ever increasing numbers since 2016.

 

[Tony Towner]

Thanks Parkin, you were one of my 3. We know Ref II is highly unlikely to happen and for the reasons discussed higher up the thread probably shouldn't, but if it were to do so, knowing the direction of travel what would you do?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

1. You don't know that until it happens the
2. I haven't called anyone that. Stop using the propaganda
3. I knew it would be difficult. I should not have had any faith in those charged on all sides
4. Completely failed from 1997 to 2013 to listen to the UK and it's concerns about the direction the EU was going. It carried on regardless, forcing the UK into a corner thinking we would never vote leave. But misjudgement compounded by the inflexibility and hard stance
5. Not yet. We haven't left yet

What specifically was the EU doing that you objected to? Don't give me balls about the Euro, Schengen or the metric system because you know full well that was never going to apply here.

There is no propaganda here. People have said "Listen. This is a disaster in the making. You need to at least do x, y and z". But these people have a fucking education, the elite cunts. So they get ignored. Will of the people.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I will open up to the fact that I voted out - we have never been fully integrated in the 'project' as it was turned into by some elements (& I was a voter in 1975 when the parties confused the deal with disinformation as much much as they did in 2016). Cyber has given much of my thoughts already. Whilst it was purely about a trading block for mutual benefit we were going to sign up to it, once it went beyond that then the UK was never going to be able to agree.

The fact that we have idiots negotiating now (on both sides) is more than unfortunate for everyone.

This was never about free movement/immigration (thats a resource issue which is down to the Government of the day) - immigration hasn't fallen since 2016 just more from outside the EU & less from within due to the uncertainty.

Both Europe & the UK need to try and ensure that we have a mutually beneficial trading policy - it can only be a gain for both. Are the Politicians on both sides able to see this. With the current set really not sure that they can.

And I have European relatives as my sister married a Dane & has lived there for 30 yrs - was out there for my nieces wedding last year. The fact that we are not part of the same 'Bloc' doesn't mean that we can't talk to them or trade successfully. Rules for that can be complicated to everyone's disadvantage - or not to everyone's benefit

Wow!
Thank you for your candour
My daughter in law is Portuguese
My daughter is about to work in Germany and has worked in Europe
I want to retire abroad or at least travel more in Europe.

But their is a distinction between the strategic aims of the EU and what is best for the country. My vote and the Brexit vote may have fucked over my retirement plans. We shall see. It doesn't make it wrong though

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Also how do you feel about the fact that I was born in 1981 as an EU citizen and that will be stripped away from me at some point fairly soon, with all its attendant rights?

That's ok, is it?

 

[Sniffer]

Sounds great Cyber. I'm glad that your children have had the benefits that mine will never have.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Originally no more votes

Now I would happily vote on hard or soft

And vote soft over the next 5 years.

We are leaving. There is no need for us to be pricks about it and destroy friendships. We just don't get it the whole EU expansion ideology and are not ready for the next step the EU wants. It happens

What about a verification referendum? This is what I rarely hear from people who voted leave...that they’d welcome a second referendum to check people still wanted to leave. It’s almost as if they fear “the will of the people” might have changed.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

What specifically was the EU doing that you objected to? Don't give me balls about the Euro, Schengen or the metric system because you know full well that was never going to apply here.

There is no propaganda here. People have said "Listen. This is a disaster in the making. You need to at least do x, y and z". But these people have a $#@!ing education, the elite $#@!s. So they get ignored. Will of the people.

That is where you and I disagree. I saw first hand what public service was working towards and why.We were working towards Shenghen as we knew in the long term it had to happoen. Just as in the long term we would go to the euro and the km. Can you imagine a 2034 eu with 30 members all in the euro and Shenghen bar 1 country! Us?

That is where we were heading. That is what I disagreed with.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

What about a verification referendum? This is what I rarely hear from people who voted leave...that they’d welcome a second referendum to check people still wanted to leave. It’s almost as if they fear “the will of the people” might have changed.

That's like getting semi finals replayed to be fair.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

That is where you and I disagree. I saw first hand what public service was working towards and why.We were working towards Shenghen as we knew in the long term it had to happoen. Just as in the long term we would go to the euro and the km. Can you imagine a 2034 eu with 30 members all in the euro and Shenghen bar 1 country! Us?

That is where we were heading. That is what I disagreed with.

See what you've done there is made up a scenario.

You're ok with me actually losing citizenship because of something I actually didn't vote for though, yeah?

 

[Tony Towner]

That is where you and I disagree. I saw first hand what public service was working towards and why.We were working towards Shenghen as we knew in the long term it had to happoen. Just as in the long term we would go to the euro and the km. Can you imagine a 2034 eu with 30 members all in the euro and Shenghen bar 1 country! Us?

That is where we were heading. That is what I disagreed with.

There is no way any of those things would have happened. It's up there with Gove's 'Turkey will be in the EU and they are all coming here'.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Also how do you feel about the fact that I was born in 1981 as an EU citizen and that will be stripped away from me at some point fairly soon, with all its attendant rights?

That's ok, is it?

Will it?
Maybe.
I doubt it. You may no longer have an eu passport but don't think that's going to impact as much as many fear.Spain, France and Portugal rely on ex pat pensions to prop up their tourist economies. Do you think they want that to end? Nope me neither. That's also project fear

 

[Deleted Cyber]

There is no way any of those things would have happened. It's up there with Gove's 'Turkey will be in the EU and they are all coming here'.

Fortunately we will never know

 

[Deleted Cyber]

See what you've done there is made up a scenario.

You're ok with me actually losing citizenship because of something I actually didn't vote for though, yeah?

No I have guessed where we were likely to go based on what was going on around me and the facts available.

I don't wait for a punch when someone assumes the stance before I take a defensive posture

 

[Tony Towner]

Fortunately we will never know

We had a veto, we couldn't be forced to do anything. That veto couldn't have been taken away from us because it only takes one member to vote against a measure and it falls, who do you think that may have been? This was all made clear at the referendum, people just chose to ignore/not listen

 

[Parkins left foot]

Wow!
Thank you for your candour
My daughter in law is Portuguese
My daughter is about to work in Germany and has worked in Europe
I want to retire abroad or at least travel more in Europe.

But their is a distinction between the strategic aims of the EU and what is best for the country. My vote and the Brexit vote may have fucked over my retirement plans. We shall see. It doesn't make it wrong though

Annoys me when (some) people say that anyone voting out is a racist - I was (probably) in a multi cultural community long before the rest of the country was.

Went to boarding school and at least 30% was from West Africa or the Middle East (wasn't a 'major' Public School so you just needed to be able to afford the fee) - in the mid 60's there wouldn't have been many places that were that culturally mixed.

Colour/race/nationality was sod all to do with my vote

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Will it?
Maybe.
I doubt it. You may no longer have an eu passport but don't think that's going to impact as much as many fear.Spain, France and Portugal rely on ex pat pensions to prop up their tourist economies. Do you think they want that to end? Nope me neither. That's also project fear

Well I'm glad you are ok with me losing what I was born with because "you doubt it".

Pray tell, how am I retaining EU citizenship as it stands?

Because I'm not ok with it. And "impacting" means fuck all, mate. I was born with it, I have had cause to use it, I may have cause to use it again and I resent losing it because some racist fucks voted on something they don't understand.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

We had a veto, we couldn't be forced to do anything. That veto couldn't have been taken away from us because it only takes one member to vote against a measure and it falls, who do you think that may have been? This was all made clear at the referendum, people just chose to ignore/not listen

Ok. The veto was becoming more and more of an issue for the main eu countries who was the UK as wanting to have its cake and eat it. The whole reason for the referendum was to get the sceptics and ukip to fuck off. Spectacular miscalculation.

But we are where we are. We are now starting to cover well trodden ground. Sirry. It's got to be what next for me not what was. It's gone.