REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's not in the grand scheme of things, and it ignores every single economic benefit of EU membership that we received.

£250m is obviously a lot of money to normal people, but not to the world's fifth/sixth biggest economy it's not and it's not as if that's just money sent away every single week for no gain whatsoever. It's another example of conflating running a country with everyday wealth and day to day decisions that people make. See also the six year obsession with reducing the deficit at the cost of stagnating the economy, trite soundbites about "maxing out the credit card" and "fixing the roof while the sun's shining". It's bullshit economics, I wouldn't even dignify it by saying it was sixth form economics.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Comedy gold. I think I'm done.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We spend somewhere in the region of £865m a week on defence, for balance.

 

[Penk Wolf]

It's not in the grand scheme of things, and it ignores every single economic benefit of EU membership that we received.

£250m is obviously a lot of money to normal people, but not to the world's fifth/sixth biggest economy it's not and it's not as if that's just money sent away every single week for no gain whatsoever. It's another example of conflating running a country with everyday wealth and day to day decisions that people make. See also the six year obsession with reducing the deficit at the cost of stagnating the economy, trite soundbites about "maxing out the credit card" and "fixing the roof while the sun's shining". It's bullshit economics, I wouldn't even dignify it by saying it was sixth form economics.

Yes, can sort of agree with that, but if someone looked into the £350m a week found it was £250m a week they would still be thinking it's a huge figure and could be spent elsewhere rather than being pumped into Europe.

I'm done now. (-:

 

[Kenny]

Yes, can sort of agree with that, but if someone looked into the £350m a week found it was £250m a week they would still be thinking it's a huge figure and could be spent elsewhere rather than being pumped into Europe.

I'm done now. (-:

Leave knew what they were doing. As you say, £350m is a large amount when it just sits there with nothing else to compare it to (if the bus said "We give the EU 0.6% of our budget" it would look shit and no one would give a crap as 0.6% is a pointless figure). They just pegged the figure with another emotive point...the NHS. Winner. Playing simple but effective games.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Probably better to look at the payments over a 12 month cycle - contribution, afetr the rebate, in 2015 was £13billion with approx £4.5billion being paid back out to the UK

So £8.5billion left - this is an amount which can make a difference as long as the right decisions are taken as to what to do with it (and even though a fair number have no idea what this is about there are a large number who know this money is not there till we have formally negotiated the out)

 

[Papper]

Leave knew what they were doing. As you say, £350m is a large amount when it just sits there with nothing else to compare it to (if the bus said "We give the EU 0.6% of budget" it would look $#@! and no one would give a crap as 0.6% is a pointless figure). They just pegged the figure with another emotive point...the NHS. Winner. Playing simple but effective games.

But surely if we pay more in than we get out there is a surplus to spend.

Anybody would think we are on the verge of economic collapse with the Brexit. Nobody has disowned us yet ...

 

[Kenny]

But surely if we pay more in than we get out there is a surplus to spend.

Anybody would think we are on the verge of economic collapse with the Brexit. Nobody has disowned us yet ...

I only raised this because there have been reports of people being pissed off after voting that one of the key issues wasn't utterly true. I guess its more to do with the naivety of a small % than anything else.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Norway's net contribution per person to the EU is about the same as the UK's. Norway aren't in the EU but are in the EEA. Even the best case Brexit scenarios concede that we will need to come up with some kind of similar arrangement. There isn't going to be an immediate £250m (for the sake of argument) surplus as soon as we leave, it's not a couple of shoeboxes with 'money in' and 'money out'.

 

[Parkins left foot]

The money situation is partly behind the EU's desire to punish the UK now for its temerity to vote out - we are the second biggest 'net' contributor after Germany.

This amount will need ultimately to be found by the other 27 (unless they cut the payment side) which I suspect they are not too chuffed about

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Probably better to look at the payments over a 12 month cycle - contribution, afetr the rebate, in 2015 was £13billion with approx £4.5billion being paid back out to the UK

So £8.5billion left - this is an amount which can make a difference as long as the right decisions are taken as to what to do with it (and even though a fair number have no idea what this is about there are a large number who know this money is not there till we have formally negotiated the out)

Correct. Patience is the key

 

[Papper]

I only raised this because there have been reports of people being pissed off after voting that one of the key issues wasn't utterly true. I guess its more to do with the naivety of a small % than anything else.

Without a doubt, like the poster it was cheap and nasty.

There was never any concerted effort from any of them to communicate facts but the referendum was completely apolitical and saw extremities united.

Some of the fallout is equally vile but for every idiot on whatever side there is I feel a consensus that concerned democracy and a desire to take control of our destiny.

I want Corbyn to remain and fight because he will get my vote. Let Farage offer a right wing vote. The purple politics of Mandelson and Johnson is a nightmare scenario.

These Politicians are advocates for us and not the Corporations - It has to change ..

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Probably better to look at the payments over a 12 month cycle - contribution, afetr the rebate, in 2015 was £13billion with approx £4.5billion being paid back out to the UK

So £8.5billion left - this is an amount which can make a difference as long as the right decisions are taken as to what to do with it (and even though a fair number have no idea what this is about there are a large number who know this money is not there till we have formally negotiated the out)

Doesn't change anything in real terms, your 8.5bn gives a bigger headline figure but it's 0.6% whether you're looking at Jr weekly or annually.

 

[Dinowolf]

Can we clear up the finances

In 2014, the gross contribution by the UK to the EU budget was £18.8 billion (HM Treasury, 2015) which works out at £361m per week. Subtracting the rebate (‘abatement’) of £4.4 billion left a total contribution after rebate of £14.4 billion. Subtracting a further £4.6 billion for UK recipients from the EU (what they call EU funding) leaves a net contribution in 2014 of £9.8 billion. HM Treasury estimates this will rise to £11.1 billion for 2016.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Can we clear up the finances

In 2014, the gross contribution by the UK to the EU budget was £18.8 billion (HM Treasury, 2015) which works out at £361m per week. Subtracting the rebate (‘abatement’) of £4.4 billion left a total contribution after rebate of £14.4 billion. Subtracting a further £4.6 billion for UK recipients from the EU (what they call EU funding) leaves a net contribution in 2014 of £9.8 billion. HM Treasury estimates this will rise to £11.1 billion for 2016.

So that's £188m a week in 2014, rising to an estimated £213m a week in 2016.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Doesn't change anything in real terms, your 8.5bn gives a bigger headline figure but it's 0.6% whether you're looking at Jr weekly or annually.

Whilst I would agree with that, having been involved in budgetry matters over many years (though at a much, much smaller level) then I know well that most of the income is dictated early on core expenditure.

Geting an additional 0.6% at the margin allows you to do things you want that you couldn't or avoid a cut that you would otherwise have to make.

These often have a disproportionate effect to the amount of money in relation to the whole

 

[Papper]

Can I ask the Socialists on here?

Why is Corbyn now surplus to requirements ?

Is it purely a desire for governance rather than traditional values ?

 

[Tredman]

The labour party hasn't been a socialist party for years.

It was a social democratic party, Corbyn is trying to remake it into a socialist party, but the MPs are not socialists.

 

[darlowolf64]

Can I ask the Socialists on here?

Why is Corbyn now surplus to requirements ?

Is it purely a desire for governance rather than traditional values ?

Corbyn represents traditional Labour politics but the left overs from "New Labour" and the new style MPs do not.

The Labour party members however have become sick of the soft, "Tory wannabe politics" and want their party to represent them. (Just my pov)

 

[Dinowolf]

So that's £188m a week in 2014, rising to an estimated £213m a week in 2016.

and your point is?