REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[visage]

Not what you want, but respect the democratic decision of a sovereign nation to leave the EU, without being vindictive and vengeful.
If the EU is so good( which it obviously isn't), why do they need to try to frighten other members not to leave, by punishing the UK?
Something like the Japanese deal, is well achievable.

Because experience has shown that no matter how good the EU might be, stupid politicians arrange referendums, and stupid people then vote to leave.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Because experience has shown that no matter how good the EU might be, stupid politicians arrange referendums, and stupid people then vote to leave.

And the ones who think they are more intelligent, can't accept the democratic result.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I think this is a problem akin to 'not affording the banks to fail'. Our infrastructure and economy isn't diverse enough and we need to reduce our reliance on financial institutions as they create absolutely nothing tangible for anybody. That isn't a good thing.

However, change would mean a massive change in thinking at government level and that isn't coming anytime soon. You could argue leaving the EU is the chance to do this. As DW and Penk have said I don't trust this lot one bit therefore we are far better off in the EU until we can get a government capable of change,

Quite a decent post, although I don't think that any government would have increased our manufacturing base, while we were in the EU.

 

[Keef]

Why not?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Why not?

Because since we have been in the EU, both the Conservative party and Labour party have both been responsible for disappearance of most of our manufacturing base. We have become to dependent on our financial services. Instead of training our own people, we have often taken on foreign workers. Leaving the EU, will force that situation to change.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Because since we have been in the EU, both the Conservative party and Labour party have both been responsible for disappearance of most of our manufacturing base.

The thing is, the only pertinent part of the sentence is what comes after the comma.

You might as well mention colour TV for all the relevance it has.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The thing is, the only pertinent part of the sentence is what comes after the comma.

You might as well mention colour TV for all the relevance it has.

That is life became easy for the rich at the cost of working class people. A quick fix, don't train your own, bring people in to the country who have already been trained. I have nothing against those people, but I understand completely why the country voted to leave the EU, as working class people had been taken for the granted.T hey were given the one chance to leave the EU, they took it.

 

[visage]

The erosion of the manufacturing base in most first world countries is because globalisation has made it easier to import manufactured goods from places like India and China.

In other words, fuck all to do with the EU.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The erosion of the manufacturing base in most first world countries is because globalisation has made it easier to import manufactured goods from places like India and China.

In other words, $#@! all to do with the EU.

Well German manufacturing is doing OK, despite China.
However, I am not blaming the EU, for our lack of manufacturing. I am saying the UK became too dependent on financial services to the detriment of our manufacturing base. This will have to change, when we leave the EU, which is a good thing. We will have to train young British people, have to invest in apprenticeships, instead on relying on the cheaper option, of relying on foreign labour, which was great for business people, but not so good for the British workers.

 

[visage]

Hence 'most'.

And it could have changed at any point in the last 50 years. But it didnt.

So why do you think the government (any government) is going to suddenly start investing in manufacturing once we leave the EU?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

However, I am not blaming the EU, for our lack of manufacturing. I am saying the UK became too dependent on financial services to the detriment of our manufacturing base. This will have to change, when we leave the EU, which is a good thing. We will have to train young British people, have to invest in apprenticeships, instead on relying on the cheaper option, of relying on foreign labour, which was great for business people, but not so good for the British workers.

No, you said "since we joined the EU" - most readers would see that as a clear link between the demise of our manufacturing and joining the EU. You are being at best disingenuous at worst lying when you say you aren't blaming the EU.

What we will have to do after leaving the EU is "train our young people" to work in the service sector that is the mainstay of our economy and will continue to be so after we have left. If you honestly believe that a consequence of leaving will be a magical recreation of manufacturing in the U.K. you are deluding yourself.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I would also say that it is not the best way to regenerate or transform an economy by completely torpedoing one of the few sectors that actually works at the moment (no matter what you think of our reliance on it), all in the name of some nonsense political bollocks that hasn't been remotely thought through, and then we can somehow start again and bingo. It doesn't work that way. It can't work that way.

If there were a plan for all this lunacy then I could sit here now and agree or disagree with the course of action. But there is NO plan. As time goes on, those in charge somehow get worse at dealing with this situation and incredibly, even more deluded. These people haven't got a clue what they're doing. Wake up before they drive us all into the abyss for absolutely no fucking reason at all.

 

[thehistorymakers]

No, you said "since we joined the EU" - most readers would see that as a clear link between the demise of our manufacturing and joining the EU. You are being at best disingenuous at worst lying when you say you aren't blaming the EU.

.

You won't get away with that. I only said since we joined the EU, in answer to Keefs post of "Why not". He was referring to a post of Why wouldn't Labour or a Tory government increase our manufacturing base. I answered " Since we have been in the EU ( they never have, both the Tory party and Labour have both helped destroy are manufacturing base). I wasn't blaming the EU, I was saying that as long as we are in the EU, they ponder to the Financial services and depend on bringing trained people from abroad, instead of training our own.
Please get your facts right, don't make up things I haven't written( again) and don't call me a liar.

 

[thehistorymakers]

No, you said "since we joined the EU" - most readers would see that as a clear link between the demise of our manufacturing and joining the EU. You are being at best disingenuous at worst lying when you say you aren't blaming the EU..

My exact words.


"Because since we have been in the EU, both the Conservative party and Labour party have both been responsible for the disappearance of most of our manufacturing base."

Please don't make things up, that I have said and then have the audacity to insinuate, it is me who is the liar!!!

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I will do as I please.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I will do as I please.

The decent thing would have been to apologise, not only making up something I didn't say, but insinuating I had lied. The evidence is in front of your eyes, what I really said.
Your answer of " I will do as I please", only shows you don't have the decency to apologise, when you have been caught with your pants down.

If we all reply, "I will do as I please". Then it means there are no rules to the debate. If you had a apologised for lying about what I had said, I would have accepted it and forgotten about it. As it is, you lose my respect.

 

[visage]

Since THM has joined started posting in this thread the quality has gone right down.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

The decent thing would have been to apologise, not only making up something I didn't say, but insinuating I had lied. The evidence is in front of your eyes, what I really said.
Your answer of " I will do as I please", only shows you don't have the decency to apologise, when you have been caught with your pants down.

If we all reply, "I will do as I please". Then it means there are no rules to the debate. If you had a apologised for lying about what I had said, I would have accepted it and forgotten about it. As it is, you lose my respect.

I did not insinuate anything, I was quite explicit. I stand by what I wrote so why would I apologise? I don't accept your explanation. I don't want or need your respect.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Since THM has joined started posting in this thread the quality has gone right down.

Great moderating, instead of pulling up an EU supporter who quiet clearly lied about what I had said, your response in your very next post is to blame me for the quality of the thread

Shame on you, Vis. Shame on you.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I did not insinuate anything, I was quite explicit. I stand by what I wrote so why would I apologise? I don't accept your explanation. I don't want or need your respect.

The posts are in front of everyone's eyes. You insinuated I was blaming the EU. You purposely missed half of the sentence out, that blamed the Conservative and Labour party.
It is there, you said it, you made it up and then said I was being disingenuous or at worst I was a liar. If you had of put my whole sentence down, it was obvious I was not blaming the EU. Why not fucking apologise? Instead of a childish, "I will do what I please".