REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[nimrod]

Well it won't be the UK will it as we're "closing the borders"

And which countries specifically have high levels of corruption?

the City must have a decent shout. buying and selling of toxic debt presumably for the sharing out of transactional bonuses, inadequate or ignored risk assessment on those transactions (but probably the latter), senior managers involved in resultant business bail outs kept on or paid off handsomely, libor fixing with the inference that if those guys were so inclined, what other inside information gets passed around as a matter of course. money talks, 'corruption' follows.

 

[Trips]

- Fair migration system for UK business and communities
- Retaining strong, collaborative relationship with EU
- Protecting national security and tackling cross-border crime
- Delivering for all nations and regions of the UK
- Protecting workers' rights and employment protections
- Ensuring same benefits currently enjoyed within single market

Labour's "six tests" that they want met or they will not support the Brexit deal the government negotiate. Good luck with "ensuring same benefits currently enjoyed within single market"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39398049

 

[Johnny75]

That's quite amusing in that the last 'test' can never happen.

 

[ProgWolf]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ies-for-immigrants-Lord-Mandelson-admits.html

The above article appeared in The Telegraph on 14th May 2013.

The former Cabinet minister Mandelson, confirmed then, for the first time, that New Labour not only welcomed, but actively encouraged a mass influx of migrants. He conceded then that this posed a major difficulty for the party’s traditional supporters.

In the same article it refers to Ed Miliband admitting that the last Labour government was not “sufficiently alive to people's concerns” over immigration and his party got “the numbers wrong”.

But most people saw through those Lies. Then, in the run up to the Referendum, Miliband tried to play down their disastrous immigration policy over their previous thirteen years in power and he was once again telling us how wonderful Immigration was and how important Freedom of Movement was.

They didn't 'get the numbers wrong', they got them exactly how they wanted them.

The day after the Referendum, The Telegraph ran this article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-attacks-ed-miliband-as-he-blames-him-for-de/

Also, during the campaign, Corbyn wanted all the Calais Migrants to come to the UK and repeatedly argued in favour of Migration.

They just don't get it do they.

Labour voters in the Labour Heartlands did not forget Messrs. Mandelson, Miliband, Blair, Campbell and Corbyn and what they had all said and done.

In those Labour Heartlands and in many other areas across England, it was the issue of Immigration, more than any other issue, that angered people so much and caused so much more resentment, (for many reasons that perhaps so many Remain voters could never understand), than any other political issue and in the end, it was this issue that swung the vote in favour of Leave.

If Labour had not presided over such a disastrous Immigration policy for so many years, we would still be in the EU now.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ies-for-immigrants-Lord-Mandelson-admits.html

The above article appeared in The Telegraph on 14th May 2013.

The former Cabinet minister Mandelson, confirmed then, for the first time, that New Labour not only welcomed, but actively encouraged a mass influx of migrants. He conceded then that this posed a major difficulty for the party’s traditional supporters.

In the same article it refers to Ed Miliband admitting that the last Labour government was not “sufficiently alive to people's concerns” over immigration and his party got “the numbers wrong”.

But most people saw through those Lies. Then, in the run up to the Referendum, Miliband tried to play down their disastrous immigration policy over their previous thirteen years in power and he was once again telling us how wonderful Immigration was and how important Freedom of Movement was.

They didn't 'get the numbers wrong', they got them exactly how they wanted them.

The day after the Referendum, The Telegraph ran this article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-attacks-ed-miliband-as-he-blames-him-for-de/

Also, during the campaign, Corbyn wanted all the Calais Migrants to come to the UK and repeatedly argued in favour of Migration.

They just don't get it do they.

Labour voters in the Labour Heartlands did not forget Messrs. Mandelson, Miliband, Blair, Campbell and Corbyn and what they had all said and done.

In those Labour Heartlands and in many other areas across England, it was the issue of Immigration, more than any other issue, that angered people so much and caused so much more resentment, (for many reasons that perhaps so many Remain voters could never understand), than any other political issue and in the end, it was this issue that swung the vote in favour of Leave.

If Labour had not presided over such a disastrous Immigration policy for so many years, we would still be in the EU now.

Correct. And its labour supporters in general who are now bleating about brexit. You can't have it both ways folks.

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

Question Time is interesting tonight. Nick Clegg speaking a lot of sense.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Correct. And its labour supporters in general who are now bleating about brexit. You can't have it both ways folks.

You reckon? 63% of Labour voters were Remain according to best estimates. Of course they're going to be "bleating" although as ever, that language does not help.

I'm not currently a Labour supporter and that applies to plenty on here. I also don't have a problem with immigration levels. I'm sorry but I can't transplant myself into the mindset of people who live an entirely different life to me which is what seems to be what is currently being asked of those who oppose Brexit. I can only argue what I believe and from my own perspective. I wouldn't be so arrogant to talk on behalf of others.

 

[machin05]

What the actual fuck? The state of our press :facepalm:

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Thinking about Theresa May in any kind of sexual context:

 

[Tredman]

Newspaper of the year

 

[ProgWolf]

You reckon? 63% of Labour voters were Remain according to best estimates. Of course they're going to be "bleating" although as ever, that language does not help.

I'm not currently a Labour supporter and that applies to plenty on here. I also don't have a problem with immigration levels. I'm sorry but I can't transplant myself into the mindset of people who live an entirely different life to me which is what seems to be what is currently being asked of those who oppose Brexit. I can only argue what I believe and from my own perspective. I wouldn't be so arrogant to talk on behalf of others.

Perhaps it was Immigration concerns that split the vote ? For people who don't have a problem with Immigration, I assume they don't have a problem with Freedom of Movement either. Perhaps, depending on where you live, and your perception of whether or not you think the high levels of Immigration over the last 15 years has had a detrimental effect on your way of life, that would be a major contributory factor in how you voted in the Referendum ?

You make a good point though, that you cannot transplant yourself into the mindset of people who live an entirely different life to yours. But the people who live in the areas where there were large overall Leave voters would surely say the same ?


In The Telegraph link I posted, John McDonnell, the Labour shadow chancellor, conceded that "voters were “cheesed off” about issues like immigration and felt politicians were not listening.

He conceded the party had to do more on immigration, saying: “We have been listening but clearly people don’t think we’ve listened enough and we haven’t come back on those issues that they’ve confronted us with

(How they were ever actually 'Listening' I find incredulous)

He then goes on to say "The issues on the door step with regard to immigration are the feelings that people are having their wages undercut, that there’s pressure on public services and there’s a deep feeling of insecurity.”

It then quotes John Mann, the Labour MP for Bassetlaw (Nottinghamshire) who backed Brexit and said he had warned the party had "Lost touch with its traditional supporters".

He said: “Labour’s gone wrong by not being in touch with its voters. I’ve been saying this for the last 10 years in relation to immigration and free movement of labour.

“I’ve been saying it in relation to what the offer is to working class people. It’s not something new in this campaign".


I do wonder if these 'wounds' will ever heal in certain parts of the country ?

 

[ProgWolf]

Question Time is interesting tonight. Nick Clegg speaking a lot of sense.

You're joking ? He must be pi$$ed ?

 

[Trips]

Just finished watching QT.

Clegg did talk a lot of sense, and tbf Alec Salmond actually made some decent points.

David Davis is a moron, and Suzanne Evans wasn't far behind him either. In one sentence Davis said that he is looking at not paying any Brexit bill to the EU, and in the next talking about how he wants the exact same benefits and access to single market. Can he not spot the flaw in this?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Just finished watching QT.

Clegg did talk a lot of sense, and tbf Alec Salmond actually made some decent points.

David Davis is a moron, and Suzanne Evans wasn't far behind him either. In one sentence Davis said that he is looking at not paying any Brexit bill to the EU, and in the next talking about how he wants the exact same benefits and access to single market. Can he not spot the flaw in this?

Nick Clegg and the Liberals would do and say anything for power, they proved that when they had a coalition with the Tory party.
Look, I don't like Farage, Boris, etc, but you have a habit of calling people names who disagree with your point of view and saying politicians speak a lot of sense, when they say something you agree with. It appears that only people who agree with you talk sense. I find that rediculous.

 

[Trips]

Nick Clegg and the Liberals would do and say anything for power, they proved that when they had a coalition with the Tory party.
Look, I don't like Farage, Boris, etc, but you have a habit of calling people names who disagree with your point of view and saying politicians speak a lot of sense, when they say something you agree with. It appears that only people who agree with you talk sense. I find that rediculous.

I don't particularly like Clegg, and certainly don't like Salmond. However, they did speak a lot of sense this evening. I didn't think Keir Starmer came across that well or confidently. I didn't say Davis was a moron because I disagree with his points of view, I disagreed with his comments - they were stupid. How is saying he is looking at not paying anything to exit the EU, but still wants all the benefits we have now anything other than stupid?

What did you make of the debate this evening, or is it just my opinions on the debate you want to discuss?

It appears that only people who agree with you talk sense.

Indeed, glad you've realised :icon_lol:

 

[Deleted Cyber]

You reckon? 63% of Labour voters were Remain according to best estimates. Of course they're going to be "bleating" although as ever, that language does not help.

I'm not currently a Labour supporter and that applies to plenty on here. I also don't have a problem with immigration levels. I'm sorry but I can't transplant myself into the mindset of people who live an entirely different life to me which is what seems to be what is currently being asked of those who oppose Brexit. I can only argue what I believe and from my own perspective. I wouldn't be so arrogant to talk on behalf of others.

Yeah- Your reality is you live in an area that voted out. My reality is I live in an area that voted remain. Not a day goes past without a protest of some sort being reported on local news and radio in Cambridge about brexit or the " way we have ruined the country" and it is pretty bloody boring. The same stuff goes round and round and you get the labour MP and councillors saying the same thing or brexit is blamed for some bad news. What the hell did everyone blame when things went wrong before 23rd June
You cant have a pay rise- Its Brexit
You cant go out tonight- its brexit
Petrol prices are unstable- its brexit
I forgot mothers day because of brexit
The clocks went forward and I overslept because of brexit
Heidi Allen was also in the remain camp and she is the MP neighbouring Cambridge but she gets about 10% of the air time. Funny that.
I am actually bored with the whole damn thing. Its all speculation and even those charged with doing something are still just waffling about it. The good thing is Purdah for the local elections comes in soon so there will be no political comment for a while. Bloody good job. The whole thing is becoming just a tad MEH I am afraid. Come back and talk to me when they have published a road map for how this is going to happen and when .Until then my interest has peaked not piqued and is on the wane.

Crazily I dont have a problem with immigration levels either . I have an issue with freedom of movement.Always did , always will.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

What the actual $#@!? The state of our press :facepalm:

Congratulations to the daily mail. They have officially found the worst lesbian porn film cover ever!

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Three minutes from Denmark that says more than 1000 posts.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I don't particularly like Clegg, and certainly don't like Salmond. However, they did speak a lot of sense this evening. I didn't think Keir Starmer came across that well or confidently. I didn't say Davis was a moron because I disagree with his points of view, I disagreed with his comments - they were stupid. How is saying he is looking at not paying anything to exit the EU, but still wants all the benefits we have now anything other than stupid?

What did you make of the debate this evening, or is it just my opinions on the debate you want to discuss?



Indeed, glad you've realised :icon_lol:

I didn't watch it.

 

[Johnny75]

I didn't watch it.

Brilliant. :icon_lol: