REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Trips]

I still don't know what it is the eastern europeans are doing causing you to not want to live by them. Or is it just that they are eastern european?

 

[ProgWolf]

Thats not answering the point, is it?

You've suggested, repeatedly, that people like Tim Farron wouldnt be so keen on multiculturalism if they lived in a multicultural area. All Im asking is why you think he (and others like him) would change their mind if they lived in somewhere like Sparkbrook?

What tangible things would make him reconsider his support?

No, I'm sure that Tim Farron would say it was wonderful if he went to live in Sparkbrook for a short time, just to prove a point, but he would never move there permanently. I would just have far more respect for him if he did. As Penk Wolf says, it's probably a class thing too which is why I keep harping on about the white middle classes. How many MP's can you name, who are happy with Freedom of Movement, that live in in an area with a high immigrant population ?

 

[ProgWolf]

Of course that hospital treatment in Spain will be something that we all have to pay for or insure against in future as EHIC cards are one of those things that Leave have decided I don't want or need.

So even though we had EHIC Cards, why didn't we get free treatment in Spain ?

 

[Tredman]

So even though we had EHIC Cards, why didn't we get free treatment in Spain ?

Dunno, you didn't know your rights:

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/about-the-ehic.aspx

 

[ProgWolf]

I still don't know what it is the eastern europeans are doing causing you to not want to live by them. Or is it just that they are eastern european?

Well for a start I have seen no evidence that they want to integrate. Instead of having so many of them here, why are we still allowing our own children to be the largest under achieving ethnic group in our schools ? Is that the masterplan ? To keep an underclass of people who will never find employment so that we can continue to justify bringing in Eastern Europeans to do the jobs that the lazy thick, uneducated working class don't want to do or are incapable of doing ?

 

[Johnny75]

Well for a start I have seen no evidence that they want to integrate. Instead of having so many of them here, why are we still allowing our own children to be the largest under achieving ethnic group in our schools ? Is that the masterplan ? To keep an underclass of people who will never find employment so that we can continue to justify bringing in Eastern Europeans to do the jobs that the lazy thick, uneducated working class don't want to do or are incapable of doing ?

That's just a victim complex and painting problems of class on foreigners rather than the government you vote for and decisions you make.

At some point people have to take responsibility for themselves and do something to change their lives. I accept there is a poverty trap but this isn't caused by immigration.

 

[ProgWolf]

Dunno, you didn't know your rights:

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/about-the-ehic.aspx

It says on there "at a reduced cost" in line with their patient co-payment. It would be helpful if EU nationals over here did something similar and made some sort of contribution to their health care when they needed to use the NHS. Can they not just take out a health insurance policy before they arrive. Hopefully this will be mandatory when we live the EU. Then we can do the same when we visit or go to live in another EU country ?

 

[Tredman]

It says on there "at a reduced cost" in line with their patient co-payment. It would be helpful if EU nationals over here did something similar and made some sort of contribution to their health care when they needed to use the NHS. Can they not just take out a health insurance policy before they arrive. Hopefully this will be mandatory when we live the EU. Then we can do the same when we visit or go to live in another EU country ?

It already is mandatory for non-EU visitors, since everyone will become non-EU you would think that would follow.

On a side point, travel insurance is peanuts for holidays, just get it wherever you go.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Well for a start I have seen no evidence that they want to integrate. Instead of having so many of them here, why are we still allowing our own children to be the largest under achieving ethnic group in our schools ? Is that the masterplan ? To keep an underclass of people who will never find employment so that we can continue to justify bringing in Eastern Europeans to do the jobs that the lazy thick, uneducated working class don't want to do or are incapable of doing ?

The Eastern European who works at our place seems more than happy to integrate.

I'm pretty sure the middle class white people that you refer to would be more than happy to live in the more affluent areas of Walsall that are highly populated with Asians. I really think you're mixing class with multi cultures or at least people are blaming class on cultures.

 

[Trips]

It says on there "at a reduced cost" in line with their patient co-payment. It would be helpful if EU nationals over here did something similar and made some sort of contribution to their health care when they needed to use the NHS. Can they not just take out a health insurance policy before they arrive. Hopefully this will be mandatory when we live the EU. Then we can do the same when we visit or go to live in another EU country ?

When they work they do contribute to the NHS

 

[ProgWolf]

That's just a victim complex and painting problems of class on foreigners rather than the government you vote for and decisions you make.

At some point people have to take responsibility for themselves and do something to change their lives. I accept there is a poverty trap but this isn't caused by immigration.

Labour were in power for 13 years. Tories have been in power for seven years. Our children have been at the bottom of the pile that whole time. Yes, it's the Governments that have allowed this situation to continue whilst having an open door immigration policy. We tried Labour and Tory but it made no difference. What else can Joe Public do ?

Responsibility ? Governments are afraid to give us responsibility because when we have it we do things that they don't want us to do, like Leaving the EU.

 

[Tredman]

As if it's the government's fault that 'our' children do worse, utter dross.

 

[ProgWolf]

When they work they do contribute to the NHS

If, as many tell us, most of them are on the national minimum wage, they will be eligible for Universal Tax Credit, and they will get even more if they have children. Are things like that taken into account when they give us the figures for migrants nett contribution ?

 

[ProgWolf]

As if it's the government's fault that 'our' children do worse, utter dross.

You obviously have the solution then ?

 

[Tredman]

You obviously have the solution then ?

Why not ask yourself why children of immigrant or ethnic minorities out perform white British children?

I'm an ex-teacher and very much have my opinion.

 

[Trips]

Here you go Prog, report from The Guardian (I know, propaganda) on a report from CentreForum ThinkTank (now the Education Policy Institute) that concludes that a lack of support from parents is the reason why white children underperform at GCSE - especially compared to how they are ranked at age 5.

Not sure how this can be blamed on immigration or successive governments. I highly doubt they teach "immigrant children" anything different to "our own"

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/04/white-children-falling-behind-other-groups-at-gcse

 

[Tredman]

For balance, same report in the torygraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...ith-english-outperform-white-british-at-gcse/

Same conclusion

 

[ProgWolf]

Why not ask yourself why children of immigrant or ethnic minorities out perform white British children?

I'm an ex-teacher and very much have my opinion.

I don't know, why do children of immigrant or ethnic minorities out perform white British children?

 

[ProgWolf]

Here you go Prog, report from The Guardian (I know, propaganda) on a report from CentreForum ThinkTank (now the Education Policy Institute) that concludes that a lack of support from parents is the reason why white children underperform at GCSE - especially compared to how they are ranked at age 5.

Not sure how this can be blamed on immigration or successive governments. I highly doubt they teach "immigrant children" anything different to "our own"

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/04/white-children-falling-behind-other-groups-at-gcse

Where did I say I blamed this on Immigration ? Instead of being obsessed with Freedom of Movement, I just feel that Governments had more important priorities and 'The Left' are usually up in arms about a lack of help and support for our most vulnerable, unless of course it's our own white working class kids.

But at last, someone has finally said it, lack of parental support. Now, why is there a lack of parental support from this particular ethnic group ?

 

[Tredman]

I don't think it's 'at last' it's been said for years. The article describes it well - it's not just about wanting kids to do well, it's about helping them to do well - that includes discipline for the child (and parent), and supporting them at home with homework and stability. Essentially putting the child before yourself - a lot of the motivation for migrants is to improve life for their children, and accepting it may mean your life comes second.