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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

PROJECT FEAR.

You actually want the UK to fail, so you can say look I was right. I find that very selfish and Ilogical. We are leaving the EU and it would nice to think that you would support your country and stop licking the EU'S anus.
 
If brexit will succeed or fail based on a single webmongs opinion then we really are fucked.
 
Yes. I also want scarlett johansson and Kelly Brook to chow down on mini Vis.

Wishing doesn't make it so.
 
Instead of labelling and singling out certain sections of society (i.e. the almost exclusive focus on 'white's being racist' ) maybe its time people were treated the same and understood as having the same concerns.

On top of the long-running racial standoff between the town’s white and Asian communities, tensions between Asians and Eastern European immigrants are rising, especially as the new arrivals move into what had previously been Indian or Pakistani enclaves.

“You hear a lot about Romanians being dishonest and stealing,” says Mohammed Akhtar, the owner of an Indian restaurant in Bury Park. “I can’t say about that, but it’s strange for us when they are drinking and socializing on the streets, because we aren’t used to it.”

http://www.politico.eu/article/immigrants-who-voted-for-brexit-luton-migration/
 
Indeed. Clearly its fine to be racist because brown people are sometimes racist.

Moronic.
 
Indeed. Clearly its fine to be racist because brown people are sometimes racist.

Moronic.

What a brilliant reply. You are so ignorant of reality. When challenged you resort to abuse.

People like you mean the Liberals/left don't actually mean anything. You are the reason for Brexit/Trump and you haven't got a clue why have you?
 
Instead of labelling and singling out certain sections of society (i.e. the almost exclusive focus on 'white's being racist' ) maybe its time people were treated the same and understood as having the same concerns.

On top of the long-running racial standoff between the town’s white and Asian communities, tensions between Asians and Eastern European immigrants are rising, especially as the new arrivals move into what had previously been Indian or Pakistani enclaves.

“You hear a lot about Romanians being dishonest and stealing,” says Mohammed Akhtar, the owner of an Indian restaurant in Bury Park. “I can’t say about that, but it’s strange for us when they are drinking and socializing on the streets, because we aren’t used to it.”

http://www.politico.eu/article/immigrants-who-voted-for-brexit-luton-migration/

People do not have the same concerns which is one of the problems with the EU vote. The article highlights the rank stupidity of the BNP as well as the fear in the Asian community and frankly the stupidity of those interviewed (bar the Imman). Ultimately it is a lack of education that hampers cohesion and only the residents can change that.

I wonder what the BNP and the rest of the scum will do when they realise that the trade deals with India and China come with relaxed movement of people.
 
I've asked countless times where I should live to fit in line with my attitude towards immigration but you've yet to even acknowledge the question nevermind answer it.

Without looking back at your previous comments, I don't know what your attitude is towards Immigration. Where you want to live may not depend on your attitude towards Immigration. It's usually more to do with where you would prefer to live if you had the choice and / or the money ? The example I gave was Tim Farron, who is a champion of multiculturalism and I dared to suggest, and it was only my opinion, that he was a hypocrite, because he lives in The Lake District. I also said that I was sick to death of hearing from white middle class people, telling me how diversity and multiculturalism was so wonderful, when they all live in white middle class leafy suburbia. It just smacks of 'Nimbyism', or 'Do As I Say, Not As I Do'.

For the people who live on a council estate in an Industrial town and, for different reasons, will never be able to move to somewhere like Cheshire, Cornwall or one of the Home Counties etc, they have to accept whatever happens in their area, or whoever moves into their area, whether they like or not.

So when you are deciding where to move to, if you were looking for a house in Birmingham, would Sparkbrook be a consideration for you ? This is where, as expected from some, the Racist card was thrown at me.

I was just telling the truth as I see it and as I have experienced it.

Why is it that you do not see many white faces when you drive through Sparkbrook ?

Is it for the same reason that you don't see many non-white faces when you drive through The Lake District or many parts of Cheshire ? Perhaps it's because Muhammed Ali is still right in his comments from the mid-70's, that 'birds of a feather still flock together' ? But why, after years and years of so many different nationalities coming into the UK, do we still keep to within our ethnic group ?

The usual reply from the usual suspects on here are to dismiss my comments as 'Racist Crap'. Perhaps it hits a nerve with a few inconvenient and uncomfortable truths ? If you do live in white middle class leafy suburbia, then how can you have any idea about the concerns of people living in places like Lincolnshire and why they do not want that many Immigrants coming into their area because of what they see as a negative impact on their lives and on the infrastructure ? This has been covered before but again the discussion ends quickly after the 'Race' card comes out. They will never understand why people could vote to Leave the EU because of these concerns. Maybe I would be the same if I had lived a sheltered life in The Lake District ?

For 40 years, I never had to walk through Wolverhampton Town / City Centre, and listen to so many accents from Eastern Europe. It makes me feel uncomfortable in my home town, as it does to see groups of Romanian men walking through the City Centre. I don't like it and I think there are too many Immigrants here now. Up until 10 years ago, I never felt this way. Too many people have come in too quickly. Perhaps if you are in your teens or twenties and everything you can see and hear around you is all you have ever known, then maybe you are more happy with the current situation, than you would be if you felt that you had mass, rapid immigration forced on you whether you wanted it or not.

With the Race Card, it's got to the stage where I hesitate to talk about some of my non-white friends.
It's like the liberal left cant wait to pounce on it with their usual diatribe and ridicule. "I'm not a racist, but....." "I'm not a racist because I have a black friend..."

Perhaps it's better if I keep my non-white friends out of this ? Damned if I do / Damned if I don't ?

For what it's worth, many first and second generation immigrants from the Commonwealth also share concerns about the sheer volume of immigrants coming in from Eastern Europe and the speed at which they have come in. (Links available on request) Up until a few years ago, Migrants always 'trickled' into the UK but we never saw as much resentment towards immigration as we do now (over 70% of people concerned about current levels). It's still the main reason why so many people voted to Leave the EU and maybe this sticks in the craw of the white middle class who will never understand why and just dismiss so many people as racists.

I don't like the fact that working class people are demonised in some quarters as being 'lazy and don't want to work'.
I don't like the implication that all 'foreign workers have a wonderful work ethic and they all do the jobs that our own lazy working class don't want to do' Perhaps they are the type of myth propagated by the white middle classes, safe from it all in their Ivory Towers, who only ever come into contact with other white middle class people on a day to day basis ?

There are other issues. The NHS. Health Tourism. Why my parents had to pay to be in a Nursing Home when they had both worked and paid into 'the system' for over 50 years. Hadn't they fu*king paid enough ? Whilst people can seemingly come here from all over the world and get free treatment because after all, it's free at the point of use isn't it ? Well it might be free to some people, but when you have paid tax and National Insurance for fifty fu*king years, then it's not free is it.

If anyone cares to discuss any of the issues I've raised then I would welcome that.

If anyone wishes to dismiss it as racist crap and give me a load of abuse, I look forward to that too as I don't mind fighting fire with fire.
 
Prog you do raise valid points, but I don't understand your need to bring colour and race (sparkbrook etc) into it - it's got nothing to do with migration from Eastern Europe and ends up with everyone just dismissing everuthing, as you said, as racist tripe.
 
Without looking back at your previous comments, I don't know what your attitude is towards Immigration. Where you want to live may not depend on your attitude towards Immigration. It's usually more to do with where you would prefer to live if you had the choice and / or the money ? The example I gave was Tim Farron, who is a champion of multiculturalism and I dared to suggest, and it was only my opinion, that he was a hypocrite, because he lives in The Lake District. I also said that I was sick to death of hearing from white middle class people, telling me how diversity and multiculturalism was so wonderful, when they all live in white middle class leafy suburbia. It just smacks of 'Nimbyism', or 'Do As I Say, Not As I Do'.

For the people who live on a council estate in an Industrial town and, for different reasons, will never be able to move to somewhere like Cheshire, Cornwall or one of the Home Counties etc, they have to accept whatever happens in their area, or whoever moves into their area, whether they like or not.

So when you are deciding where to move to, if you were looking for a house in Birmingham, would Sparkbrook be a consideration for you ? This is where, as expected from some, the Racist card was thrown at me.

I was just telling the truth as I see it and as I have experienced it.

Why is it that you do not see many white faces when you drive through Sparkbrook ?

Is it for the same reason that you don't see many non-white faces when you drive through The Lake District or many parts of Cheshire ? Perhaps it's because Muhammed Ali is still right in his comments from the mid-70's, that 'birds of a feather still flock together' ? But why, after years and years of so many different nationalities coming into the UK, do we still keep to within our ethnic group ?

The usual reply from the usual suspects on here are to dismiss my comments as 'Racist Crap'. Perhaps it hits a nerve with a few inconvenient and uncomfortable truths ? If you do live in white middle class leafy suburbia, then how can you have any idea about the concerns of people living in places like Lincolnshire and why they do not want that many Immigrants coming into their area because of what they see as a negative impact on their lives and on the infrastructure ? This has been covered before but again the discussion ends quickly after the 'Race' card comes out. They will never understand why people could vote to Leave the EU because of these concerns. Maybe I would be the same if I had lived a sheltered life in The Lake District ?

For 40 years, I never had to walk through Wolverhampton Town / City Centre, and listen to so many accents from Eastern Europe. It makes me feel uncomfortable in my home town, as it does to see groups of Romanian men walking through the City Centre. I don't like it and I think there are too many Immigrants here now. Up until 10 years ago, I never felt this way. Too many people have come in too quickly. Perhaps if you are in your teens or twenties and everything you can see and hear around you is all you have ever known, then maybe you are more happy with the current situation, than you would be if you felt that you had mass, rapid immigration forced on you whether you wanted it or not.

With the Race Card, it's got to the stage where I hesitate to talk about some of my non-white friends.
It's like the liberal left cant wait to pounce on it with their usual diatribe and ridicule. "I'm not a racist, but....." "I'm not a racist because I have a black friend..."

Perhaps it's better if I keep my non-white friends out of this ? Damned if I do / Damned if I don't ?

For what it's worth, many first and second generation immigrants from the Commonwealth also share concerns about the sheer volume of immigrants coming in from Eastern Europe and the speed at which they have come in. (Links available on request) Up until a few years ago, Migrants always 'trickled' into the UK but we never saw as much resentment towards immigration as we do now (over 70% of people concerned about current levels). It's still the main reason why so many people voted to Leave the EU and maybe this sticks in the craw of the white middle class who will never understand why and just dismiss so many people as racists.

I don't like the fact that working class people are demonised in some quarters as being 'lazy and don't want to work'.
I don't like the implication that all 'foreign workers have a wonderful work ethic and they all do the jobs that our own lazy working class don't want to do' Perhaps they are the type of myth propagated by the white middle classes, safe from it all in their Ivory Towers, who only ever come into contact with other white middle class people on a day to day basis ?

There are other issues. The NHS. Health Tourism. Why my parents had to pay to be in a Nursing Home when they had both worked and paid into 'the system' for over 50 years. Hadn't they fu*king paid enough ? Whilst people can seemingly come here from all over the world and get free treatment because after all, it's free at the point of use isn't it ? Well it might be free to some people, but when you have paid tax and National Insurance for fifty fu*king years, then it's not free is it.

If anyone cares to discuss any of the issues I've raised then I would welcome that.

If anyone wishes to dismiss it as racist crap and give me a load of abuse, I look forward to that too as I don't mind fighting fire with fire.

Can't argue with any of it really, although there is a mis conception about people paying into the state as a very high percentage of people get far more out than why they pay in when you look at roads, NHS, pensions, the whole picture.
 
Pressed send to quick.

It's a similar argument to why people voted UKIP, they have nothing to lose so why not see what the alternate is.
 
Prog you do raise valid points, but I don't understand your need to bring colour and race (sparkbrook etc) into it - it's got nothing to do with migration from Eastern Europe and ends up with everyone just dismissing everuthing, as you said, as racist tripe.

Why do you see it that way ? Instead, why don't you explain to me why, after more than 50 years of Immigration, do we still have areas like Sparkbrook in England, where there are virtually no white people ? Why has this been allowed to happen ? Or do you see nothing wrong in that ?
 
What are the downsides of living in the areas you've mentioned that would cause people to reassess their support for multiculturalism?
 
Why do you see it that way ? Instead, why don't you explain to me why, after more than 50 years of Immigration, do we still have areas like Sparkbrook in England, where there are virtually no white people ? Why has this been allowed to happen ? Or do you see nothing wrong in that ?

To be honest I'm not bothered in the slightest, it's no different to the British OAP migrants in Spain, or the overseas workers in Dubai or even me when I worked for an NGO overseas. Yes it would be better if people mixed more, though they do mix more than you think - 'mixed race' is the fastest growing ethnicity in the UK.

I don't really see this as 'MY' country, it's where I live and it's where I would hope to contribute to society, but it's not 'mine' just because my ancestors migrated here earlier than someone else's.
 
Can't argue with any of it really, although there is a mis conception about people paying into the state as a very high percentage of people get far more out than why they pay in when you look at roads, NHS, pensions, the whole picture.

However in England that is not the case. Currently every English citizen gets about 70p return for every £1 paid in tax. Scotland is around £1.30 for every pound paid. Wales and NI between 1.10 and 1.20 for every pound paid. So England tax payers are subsidising Scotland's free prescriptions or free tuition fees hence why when push comes to shove, Scotland voted and will again vote to remain with the union
 
However in England that is not the case. Currently every English citizen gets about 70p return for every £1 paid in tax. Scotland is around £1.30 for every pound paid. Wales and NI between 1.10 and 1.20 for every pound paid. So England tax payers are subsidising Scotland's free prescriptions or free tuition fees hence why when push comes to shove, Scotland voted and will again vote to remain with the union

What about retirement and before they start earning?
 
However in England that is not the case. Currently every English citizen gets about 70p return for every £1 paid in tax. Scotland is around £1.30 for every pound paid. Wales and NI between 1.10 and 1.20 for every pound paid. So England tax payers are subsidising Scotland's free prescriptions or free tuition fees hence why when push comes to shove, Scotland voted and will again vote to remain with the union

And how does that work when some pay little tax due to them being on a low wage? Surely it's an average?
 
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