REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Paddingtonwolf]

That isn't strictly true as some countries in the EU have done mass legalisations of undocumented immigrants from outside the EU. Also there are many non EU citizens that have become EU citizens in other EU countries that now live in the UK.
I don't blame people wanting to move to the UK and think most immigrants work hard and help the economy. However I do think we do not have the infrastructure in place to cope with the level immigration we are seeing in the last 15 years. When we do have that infrastructure in place, I don't have a problem with immigration and would agree diversity is a good thing, but not not at the expense of living standards. I don't blame immigrants for that, but successive goverments. There do need to be controls in place until the goverment build the infrastructure and have a good level of public services in place.

WE ARE NOT PART OF SCHENGEN SO THEY STILL HAVE TO SHOW A PASSPORT TO GET IN THE UK.

Do I need to embolden it? Maybe italics?

 

[thehistorymakers]

So you've conveniently ignored the simple fact that the decision to make people citizens of that particular country is taken at local level not at EU level? Why?

And are you saying that as long as immigrants aren't too diverse and do not use public services that's OK as they won't bring down living standards?

I don't have a problem with the movement of people around the EU personally whereas we already have the power to control non-EU migration but the government chooses not to, maybe it is the government of the day you need to challenge not the EU. Also, is there any chance you can either come up with a plan for Brexit or comment on Cyber's excellent post of a few days ago. Can you at least tell us what in Brexit apart from immigration got you to vote Brexit and what it will look like when we leave?

You are stalking me and not making any points again.

 

[thehistorymakers]

WE ARE NOT PART OF SCHENGEN SO THEY STILL HAVE TO SHOW A PASSPORT TO GET IN THE UK.

Do I need to embolden it? Maybe italics?

IF you have an EU passport and are legalised in another country in the EU, but were born outside the EU, SCHENGEN, doesn't stop people born outside the EU, getting in to the UK. If the million people who marched through the EU last year, who were born outside the EU, are legalised in Germany, the UK has no right to stop them working and living in the UK.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

But we have the right to stop them at passport control without documents BECAUSE WE AREN'T PART OF BLOODY SCHENGEN.

Stop applying the Spanish situation to this sceptered isle and you might stop looking like a complete dolt.

 

[thehistorymakers]

But we have the right to stop them at passport control without documents BECAUSE WE AREN'T PART OF BLOODY SCHENGEN.

Stop applying the Spanish situation to this sceptered isle and you might stop looking like a complete dolt.

Paddy it doesn't just happen in Spain. Anyway showing passports has nothing to do with the debate, it was Non EU born people, obtaining EU passports in other EU countries and then being able to live in the UK. You originally said that non EU born citizens weren't going to be affected by us leaving the EU. I am saying they will be as between 6 to 9% of EU nationals living in the UK, we're born outside the EU and legalised in another country in the EU. They will not automatically be able to live in the UK as many EU nationals won't.

My own personal point of view, I don't care where people come from, until we have the infrastructure and services in place, we should contol the numbers coming in to the UK, being in the EU we couldn't do that.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Under Article 22, to apply for nationality through residence it is necessary for the individual to have lived in Spain for:

ten years, or
five years if the individual is a refugee, or
two years if the individual is a natural-born citizen of a country of Iberoamerica, Andorra, Philippines, Equatorial Guinea, Portugal, or if the individual is a Sephardi Jew; or
one year for individuals:
born in Spanish territory, or
who did not exercise their right to their nationality by option within the established period of time, or
who have been under the legal tutelage or protection of a Spanish citizen or institution for two consecutive years,
who have been married for one year to a Spanish national and are not separated legally or de facto, or
are widow(er)s of a Spanish national if at the time of death they were not legally or de facto separated, or
who were born outside of Spain, if one of their parents or grandparents was originally Spanish (i.e. Spanish by origin).

It's disingenuous to suggest people rock up to Cadiz from Africa, get handed a Spanish passport in no time and then ship themselves over to the UK.

 

[thehistorymakers]

It's disingenuous to suggest people rock up to Cadiz from Africa, get handed a Spanish passport in no time and then ship themselves over to the UK.

I never said that. I said in 2005, 700, 000 were legalised in one go. I also said that African people are not treated the same in Spain as in the UK. That initial mass legalisation gave many African people the idea, that they would get Spanish passports very easy if they set foot on Spanish soil. The vast majority of African immigrants set foot on Spanish territory, in the Spanish enclaves in Northern Africa. The perception of easy Spanish passports is often given by ruthless people traffickers.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

So you accept it isn't a simple process. Therefore how is this a present threat to the UK? Until they get Spanish citizenship then they can't come here, it takes up to a decade to sort out (who knows, maybe even more when you factor in bureaucracy)...that's some long game.

It's a myth propagated by the likes of UKIP that residency papers get handed out like confetti in the EU and once migrants have them, they flood over here. It's palpable nonsense.

 

[thehistorymakers]

So you accept it isn't a simple process. Therefore how is this a present threat to the UK? Until they get Spanish citizenship then they can't come here, it takes up to a decade to sort out (who knows, maybe even more when you factor in bureaucracy)...that's some long game.

It's a myth propagated by the likes of UKIP that residency papers get handed out like confetti in the EU and once migrants have them, they flood over here. It's palpable nonsense.

6 to 9% of EU nationals in the UK are born outside the EU. So Paddy was not right that leaving the EU won't stop non EU citizens coming to live in the UK.
Anyway what did you make of Tony Blair's speech,when he said the problem wasn't EU nationals but people who were born outside the EU who don't intergrate? If Farage or Trump had said that, many on here would be calling them racist.
I don't care where people were born as long as we have the infrastructure in place and I do blame successive goverments for that.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

What is actually wrong with the very small percentage of EU nationals who were originally born in non-EU countries coming to the UK? Are they doing something horrific?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We already have controls over non-EU immigration. Have had since forever.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I never said that. I said the Brexit will make NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE TO IT.

So why bother?

 

[Sniffer]

6 to 9% of EU nationals in the UK are born outside the EU.

Any idea where this figure has come from?

 

[thehistorymakers]

What is actually wrong with the very small percentage of EU nationals who were originally born in non-EU countries coming to the UK? Are they doing something horrific?

Not at all, it was said that leaving the EU, won't make a difference to non-EU born citizens living in the UK, it will.
I don't care where people come from.
What do you say to Tony Blair, who did say that the problem with immigration, isn't with EU nationals, but none EU nationals that don't intergrate?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Dunno, but it is hardly a shock.

If you are from outside the EU, meet our strict visa and entry criteria and then later choose to become a UK citizen then you would be in that number.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Not at all, it was said that leaving the EU, won't make a difference to non-EU born citizens living in the UK, it will.
I don't care where people come from.
What do you say to Tony Blair, who did say that the problem with immigration, isn't with EU nationals, but none EU nationals that don't intergrate?

NO IT FUCKING WONT.

NOW - If they meet our border control criteria, then welcome. If not, sorry.

POST BREXIT - Exactly the fucking same.

Can you please try and get that through your skull before one of us dies.

 

[thehistorymakers]

6 to 9% of EU nationals in the UK are born outside the EU.

Any idea where this figure has come from?

I read that about 2 years ago, but have also read that the true figure is 3%. If you take the 3%, it still means leaving the EU will make a difference to people from born outside the UK, being able to live in the UK. As their EU passports won't give them automatic right to enter.

 

[thehistorymakers]

NO IT $#@!ING WONT.

NOW - If they meet our border control criteria, then welcome. If not, sorry.

POST BREXIT - Exactly the $#@!ing same.

Can you please try and get that through your skull before one of us dies.

If the million people who marched to Germany last year, from born outside the EU are legalised and obtain German (EU ) passports, will they be able to work in the UK under EU laws? Yes or no?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Again you're looking at 6-8 years for German naturalisation and it's far from a guarantee you'll be granted it.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Again you're looking at 6-8 years for German naturalisation and it's far from a guarantee you'll be granted it.

But say they are, would they be free to come to the UK, if we were still in the EU?