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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Is it just an education thing? That is, they don't know and/ or don't want to know any different?
Not too sure. It's a blend. For example, a guy I've known for years and hasn't worked for a similar period claims that he is more entitled to benefits than an immigrant. I have in-laws who have played the system for decades and they all seem to view it as an entitlement solely for themselves.
 
Because it was a comment in the context of the article posted by Johnny.
 
If anyone said that about black or Asian people they would get hammered on here for being racist and bigoted.

I have to say I agree with this, but playing Devils Advocate, Newspapers like The Daily Mail and The Guardian never seem to concede any ground on any issue. They can't both be right, all the time. Surely on some issues there has to be some 'middle ground'. Perhaps they just don't want to upset the majority of their readership with balanced reporting ?

For example, if an elderly couple voiced their concerns about Immigration and the detrimental effect that they thought it was having on their area / town, the Daily Mail may go over the top and exaggerate the 'problem', whereas a Guardian report may just dismiss their concerns as a couple of old racist bigots ? But would the readers of each newspaper be able to look at it from both sides

Many have voiced their opposition to Trump coming here. I can't stand the bloke to be honest, but he was democratically elected as USA President and we have the potential to negotiate a favourable trade agreement with the USA. So we just hold our nose and get on with it, don't we ?

The Chinese President oversees an atrocious Human Rights record, but we laid out the Red Carpet for him.

There are some people who I do business with, that I don't like and would certainly never meet them socially, but business is business ?

This is the balance that we never see in the Press, depending on what their agenda is ?

One other point on the Daily Mail, I think they are very selective as to how they report on individuals or families, depending on whether they are working class (negative, well what did you expect from a council estate) or middle class (sympathetic and oh how could this have happened to such wonderful hard working people).
 
I'd be very surprised if there are Guardian articles writing off old people as racist bigots. I've read it nearly every day for the last 15 years or so but let me know if one's slipped the net.
 
No paper sits in the middle ground though otherwise they will struggle to be (a) relevant or (b) sell papers. With the digital age newspapers have become opinion pieces as stories break on the internet and the variety of rolling news channels before they can be properly covered in print.

I don't understand your last point on the Fail as it is a fascist shit rag of a paper that hates everybody unless you agree with whatever right wing view they hold.
 
I have to say I agree with this, but playing Devils Advocate, Newspapers like The Daily Mail and The Guardian never seem to concede any ground on any issue. They can't both be right, all the time. Surely on some issues there has to be some 'middle ground'. Perhaps they just don't want to upset the majority of their readership with balanced reporting ?

For example, if an elderly couple voiced their concerns about Immigration and the detrimental effect that they thought it was having on their area / town, the Daily Mail may go over the top and exaggerate the 'problem', whereas a Guardian report may just dismiss their concerns as a couple of old racist bigots ? But would the readers of each newspaper be able to look at it from both sides

Many have voiced their opposition to Trump coming here. I can't stand the bloke to be honest, but he was democratically elected as USA President and we have the potential to negotiate a favourable trade agreement with the USA. So we just hold our nose and get on with it, don't we ?

The Chinese President oversees an atrocious Human Rights record, but we laid out the Red Carpet for him.

There are some people who I do business with, that I don't like and would certainly never meet them socially, but business is business ?

This is the balance that we never see in the Press, depending on what their agenda is ?

One other point on the Daily Mail, I think they are very selective as to how they report on individuals or families, depending on whether they are working class (negative, well what did you expect from a council estate) or middle class (sympathetic and oh how could this have happened to such wonderful hard working people).

Good point, move on.
 
No paper sits in the middle ground though otherwise they will struggle to be (a) relevant or (b) sell papers. With the digital age newspapers have become opinion pieces as stories break on the internet and the variety of rolling news channels before they can be properly covered in print.

I don't understand your last point on the Fail as it is a fascist shit rag of a paper that hates everybody unless you agree with whatever right wing view they hold.


I have never bought the Daily Mail and I know what their game is, but don't tell me you have never agreed or never supported any of their news stories ??
 
I'd be very surprised if there are Guardian articles writing off old people as racist bigots. I've read it nearly every day for the last 15 years or so but let me know if one's slipped the net.

You can see the point I'm trying to make though ? Both papers under report or over report or they are economical with the truth, depending on what fits their agenda ?
 
I have never bought the Daily Mail and I know what their game is, but don't tell me you have never agreed or never supported any of their news stories ??

I can quite safely say I've never supported or agreed with a Daily Mail opinion piece. Some of their stories are factually correct so you can't dispute facts (unless you're Donald).

In terms of the original article it was about a working class white male so that was the writers only reference point and he was pretty pissed off with being represented by Brexiteers who wanted to divide the nation and didn't represent him.
 
You can see the point I'm trying to make though ? Both papers under report or over report or they are economical with the truth, depending on what fits their agenda ?

As Johnny says every paper will have a slant, otherwise it would just be copies of Reuters' output. No-one should ever believe everything that's written in any newspaper.

As I have said before on this thread (I appreciate you are new) there are articles in the Guardian pushing the economic case for Brexit and Matthew D'Ancona wrote a piece not that long ago praising IDS' work during his time in Welfare. Personally I consider both those arguments to be utter rot - especially the second one - but it's not fair to paint the Guardian as a paper which only publishes Islingtonista propaganda. It's a shit, inaccurate stereotype. If you don't like it then don't read it, but it's unfair to make it out as the Morning Star's sister publication.

Whereas the drivel that the Mail pumps out is almost entirely unworthy of any credence whatsoever, poorly written and outright false information most of the time, stuff that's not even hard to check. Without even getting into the racist and fascist undertones in much of their political output lately.
 
I see Jan Moir mentioned there, a woman who thinks congenital heart conditions are caused by being gay.
 
I can quite safely say I've never supported or agreed with a Daily Mail opinion piece. Some of their stories are factually correct so you can't dispute facts (unless you're Donald).

In terms of the original article it was about a working class white male so that was the writers only reference point and he was pretty pissed off with being represented by Brexiteers who wanted to divide the nation and didn't represent him.

Didn't The DM put photos of the Stephen Lawrence suspects on their front page though, even before they were charged ? Didn't that help towards convictions for two of them ? I'm sure there must be other examples ?
 
Didn't The DM put photos of the Stephen Lawrence suspects on their front page though, even before they were charged ? Didn't that help towards convictions for two of them ? I'm sure there must be other examples ?

I thought we lived in an 'innocent until proven guilty' society? I don't like kangaroo courts or trial by press as facts often take a back seat.
 
Hmmm. You have to be a bit careful about the press in many ways. For instance, nobody on earth will deny that Peter Sutcliffe is a bad person. Equally no lawyer at the time will tell you that under the Mc'Naghten rules he was sane. Absolutely not. He should have found not guilty by reason of insanity and sent to Broadmoor.

The Sun and the Mirror influenced that jury to a massive level. He ended up being guilty for no reason other than to satisfy red-top hunger. So he went to a normal prison until they could possibly shift him out. And now those same red tops still cannot wait to get him back into a normal prison population.
 

Interesting link there leedswolf. Not just about what influence, if any, the Daily Mail had on the case. Up until the headline, Doreen Lawrence said she was worried about the paper's 'hostility towards immigrants' but also that she felt some 'small satisfaction when she saw the headline' about the suspects with their photos on the front page. The link you posted, do you think it's a little disingenuous towards the DM ? Whatever they have done before or since, and even though other pressure groups had been trying to highlight it for some time before, surely the Daily Mail were still doing a good thing at that time ? I think the problem is, if there is a newspaper, presenter, interviewer etc, that we really detest, we will find it hard to give them any praise or credit even when it's perhaps due ?
 
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