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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Johnny75 said:
With Europe making it harder to deal with how do you think this will benefit our economy in any way? Surely we can only lose in that situation and goods will inevitably become more expensive because of it as scarcity kicks in.

Do you really think that the rest of Europe will not just find a European alternative, it isn't like they need us is it? Europe was stronger with the UK in it and it paid to trade with the UK but why, if you were a European country would you try and sell to Britain if you knew you couldn't compete with Asia? Why would you buy British if it was 20% more expensive? Wouldn't you just source your products from elsewhere or find a different solution?

I really don't see how the economy could get stronger on Brexit, please tell me how it could?
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Take away the likes of Germany and France, I really don't think other nations will want to make it more difficult.

The only way the European companies will look for an alternate is if prices in the UK become too high. Wouldn't European companies be buying from China, India, Poland, etc. if it was about price?
 
Penk Wolf said:
Take away the likes of Germany and France, I really don't this team other nations will want to make it more difficult.

The only way the European companies will look for an alternate is if prices in the UK become too high. Wouldn't European companies be buying from China, India, Poland, etc. if it was about price?
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They trade as one group though and France and Germany can block anything the others may want and will.
 
Tony Towner said:
Yes, the EU is all or nothing, one nation can veto everything
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That can't be true Shirley, otherwise how would the Turks be able to invade the eu if the UK alone could have vetoed it? That's what uncle Nige said, it must be true.
 
Originator Billy Bragg

In many ways, Brexit is just the latest manifestation of England's post-imperial inferiority complex, blaming others - immigrants, EU - for self inflicted problems.

John Harris is right when he says "Those of us who live in England and feel a profound attachment to it ought to wake up to a simple truth: that our country is being stolen away, and repainted in truly ugly colours. What is afoot is as much cultural as political, and it will take much more than conventional politics to turn things round. This is a moment: one that demands the attention of musicians, writers, dramatists, journalists – and the millions of people in England who surely feel a deep dismay about what is happening."

A key catalyst in this process would be for the Labour Party to overcome its notorious blind spot about England and begin to express an inclusive sense of English identity based on where you are, rather than where your parents or grand-parents were from. Place not race is the key to building a sense of community and belonging among everyone who calls our beautiful country home.
 
leedswolf said:
Originator Billy Bragg

In many ways, Brexit is just the latest manifestation of England's post-imperial inferiority complex, blaming others - immigrants, EU - for self inflicted problems.

John Harris is right when he says "Those of us who live in England and feel a profound attachment to it ought to wake up to a simple truth: that our country is being stolen away, and repainted in truly ugly colours. What is afoot is as much cultural as political, and it will take much more than conventional politics to turn things round. This is a moment: one that demands the attention of musicians, writers, dramatists, journalists – and the millions of people in England who surely feel a deep dismay about what is happening."

A key catalyst in this process would be for the Labour Party to overcome its notorious blind spot about England and begin to express an inclusive sense of English identity based on where you are, rather than where your parents or grand-parents were from. Place not race is the key to building a sense of community and belonging among everyone who calls our beautiful country home.
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Yes good luck with that. The labour party is as much use as tits on a fish politically speaking.I have been ukip for 20 years but where the fuck do I go now with all this shit
 
That's actually a good and interesting question Cyber. UKIP as a Farage party has pretty much achieved its raison d'etre, so a new UKIP leader when elected is going to need to re-position the party in terms of policy. Presumably any future manifesto will need to go into much more detail in other areas than the narrow focus that Farage wanted to have. If that manifesto still appeals, then I guess there is no reason why you can't still be a UKIP follower if that is what you want.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
That's actually a good and interesting question Cyber. UKIP as a Farage party has pretty much achieved its raison d'etre, so a new UKIP leader when elected is going to need to re-position the party in terms of policy. Presumably any future manifesto will need to go into much more detail in other areas than the narrow focus that Farage wanted to have. If that manifesto still appeals, then I guess there is no reason why you can't still be a UKIP follower if that is what you want.
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I will notrenew my membership whatsoever. I will join the SDP if I feel they can make any sort of political challenge.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
You don't know that yet. Throw it in my face when it happens fine. Now you can't make assumptions
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They are the fundamental, central principles of the European Union. An entity we have decided to leave. Surely you have to work with the assumption that we'll no longer have those freedoms rather than blithely assuming we'll carry on much as we did before. The Government (other than Hammond, who appears to be a lone voice of reason in the inner circle) are already signalling that they'll happily sacrifice access to the common market so that we can restrict immigration to the UK. So that's wiping out er, all of them.

We already had the best possible deal we could ask for. Access to the common market without being part of Schengen or the Euro. D-Cam had even negotiated a way to restrict in and out of work benefits in the UK to newly arrived EU immigrants (which would have saved pennies in the grand scheme of things but hey, it's the kind of thing that plays nicely to the gallery who insist we have floods of Balkans arriving here every day to claim their £70 a week JSA). But no, we're going to get a better deal now despite not being in the club, royally pissing everyone else off, making ourselves a sitting target to become a deterrent to any other countries thinking of leaving and having very few, arguably no cards to play in our favour. Definitely. With Fox, Davis and Johnson doing the negotiating.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
They are the fundamental, central principles of the European Union. An entity we have decided to leave. Surely you have to work with the assumption that we'll no longer have those freedoms rather than blithely assuming we'll carry on much as we did before. The Government (other than Hammond, who appears to be a lone voice of reason in the inner circle) are already signalling that they'll happily sacrifice access to the common market so that we can restrict immigration to the UK. So that's wiping out er, all of them.

We already had the best possible deal we could ask for. Access to the common market without being part of Schengen or the Euro. D-Cam had even negotiated a way to restrict in and out of work benefits in the UK to newly arrived EU immigrants (which would have saved pennies in the grand scheme of things but hey, it's the kind of thing that plays nicely to the gallery who insist we have floods of Balkans arriving here every day to claim their £70 a week JSA). But no, we're going to get a better deal now despite not being in the club, royally pissing everyone else off, making ourselves a sitting target to become a deterrent to any other countries thinking of leaving and having very few, arguably no cards to play in our favour. Definitely. With Fox, Davis and Johnson doing the negotiating.
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Like the Murphy's you're not bitter
 
God there are some real doom goblin's on here. I just can't see it that way sorry. I think we have kicked the EU in the bollocks and made them reluctantly listen and they will
 
I've told you, I don't care if I'm perceived to be bitter, though like T-Dan I'm angry about it, still, rather than bitter.

I've raised the EU citizenship issue with you now two or three times, you ignore it. You make a point about 'freedom', when it's pointed out to you that we're actually almost certainly throwing away a load of 'freedom' that we already had, there's no real answer. Any economic question is left with a 'wait and see', 'it'll be fine, you'll see' style answer with zero evidence or theory to back it up. The last 4-5 pages have blown back up into a back and forth because you insisted on splitting the debate into 'you/we' territory and telling us 'losers' to 'suck it up', claiming you were provoked into doing so but there isn't actually any real evidence for that (you've not really backtracked on it either).

Now I'm perfectly willing to discuss where we go from here with you in a reasonable manner, but you aren't really giving me much to work with. And you wonder why I said my inclination was to wash my hands of it and let those glorying in a victory for Leave to sort it all out.
 
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