Refereeing question

[lemonjelly]

Blatantly a dive imo.
Villa set up for that game all wrong, & it cost them, & Benteke after some initial promise is now looking guff. However Villa could have (with some luck & a decent striker) got something from that game.
Halsey was shocking though.

Have to say the ref friday night needs to go a long way to justify his wages/employment. He was absolutely dire. & There were occasions where both linesmen really did not know at all which way to give the throw in. It was abundantly clear they genuinely did not know.

 

[Nando]

Adkins' and Lambert's comments regarding it are absolutely disgraceful.

 

[jd1981]

Adkins' and Lambert's comments regarding it are absolutely disgraceful.

Agreed totally and I bet the moment they are victims of the same this season they will be first to complain. I actually hope saints go down after this incident as has been said other than retribution in the press there is nothing to discourage players from diving.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Bale's may not have been 'dives' as there was contact. But throwing your legs up in the air afterwards makes It look like a dive.

Plus, I'm more happy they are trying to punish it. If they get some wrong then I'm not bothered, doing it enough may stamp it out.

 

[lemonjelly]

ashley cheat young springs to mind...

 

[FrankMunro-371]

At full speed I think it looked like it was a penalty for Southampton. Though the replay showed it was a blatant dive.

And this is what makes it so difficult for the officials. Cheating has no place in football, but how do the authorities stop it.

 

[jd1981]

At full speed I think it looked like it was a penalty for Southampton. Though the replay showed it was a blatant dive.

And this is what makes it so difficult for the officials. Cheating has no place in football, but how do the authorities stop it.

It's hard because if retrospectively punish someone then they could be banned against one of the rivals of the team that was the victim of the initial incident.
Hefty fines mean nothing to top players, maybe if one team persistently offends then you could dock them a point but then you get into grey areas and sometimes you get debatable decisions.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

This is where cricket and rugby have it right and football fucked it up. A review called by the referee to confirm what he thought he saw would save all this argument. " Is there a reason why I should not award a penalty?" would be the question he asked the tV officiial- Yes there was no contact would be the reply,. Defence gets a free kick, forward booked for simulation crowd happy cause its the right decision and shown on the tv screen then move on

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

When are you stopping the game though? What if that loose touch goes to a Villa player and they break and score? You can't compare cricket/rugby/tennis, they all have natural breaks in play that football doesn't have.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Honesty from players might help, but as that will not happen, I feel there is no alternative to the present system. The officials will get some right and some wrong. Hardly ideal, but that is where we are.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Agreed totally and I bet the moment they are victims of the same this season they will be first to complain. I actually hope saints go down after this incident as has been said other than retribution in the press there is nothing to discourage players from diving.

Thats the problem, 1 time in 10 (unless your name is Bale or Suarez) a player will get a yellow card for diving, another 2 say the ref will just wave play on, the other 7 the ref will award the penalty and said player will get pat on the back from his manager, no deterant at all.

Retrospective punishment for the player from video evidence for something like this when it is clear that no contact was made is a possible solution to prevent some off it, (although it will be too late to change the result). No doubt someone will come out that you dive to avoid a tackle but thats bollocks, if you want to avoid a tackle you jump out the way you dont dive, if a player has the skill to make a convincing dive at the moment, then if the rules are changed he will have no problem jumping out the way instead.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

When are you stopping the game though? What if that loose touch goes to a Villa player and they break and score? You can't compare cricket/rugby/tennis, they all have natural breaks in play that football doesn't have.

If the other official with the TV gadgetry is constantly watching, reviewing dodgy looking situations then you dont really need the referee to stop it, that other bloke should be able to let him know either way within a couple of seconds, say a defender handballs it defending a corner then lumps it clear, the bloke with the TV screen should be able to rewind a couple of seconds and shout the ref down his mic before it gets anywhere near the other goal.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Or they could just get simple enough decisions right in the first place.

What about if something happens while your video monkey is rewinding and rewatching the penalty incident? Who's paying for all this?

 

[Donegal Wolf]

If the other official with the TV gadgetry is constantly watching, reviewing dodgy looking situations then you dont really need the referee to stop it, that other bloke should be able to let him know either way within a couple of seconds, say a defender handballs it defending a corner then lumps it clear, the bloke with the TV screen should be able to rewind a couple of seconds and shout the ref down his mic before it gets anywhere near the other goal.

As you said would only take a couple of seconds and the chances of Villa going upfield and scoring from that sequence of play will be less then 1%, or they could wait till their is a break in play, which would happen within a minute of the incident and then they could go back and review it, if it was an offence such as a penalty then they could go back to it.

People make a big deal about tv evidence, but it was used once on the biggest stage of all and nothing was ever said about it (probably due to being a cast iron decision).

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The money thing is a far bigger issue to overcome if you want to drag the thing all the way down the pyramid, if something else happens he's still only a couple of seconds behind seeing it on his screen anyway so it's hardly the end of the world.

As things stand the best we could do is retrospective action against the worst offenders, both cheating players and underperforming referees, you might get a few wrong but being overly harsh would soon get the message across and people would be doing their utmost to avoid anything that could be contrived as cheating.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I just think it's easier, quicker, cheaper and indeed better all round if we just get better officials in the first place and then everything looks after itself. They shouldn't keep using Halsey when it's clear that he makes constant, basic errors, never has the decency to admit his mistakes, and it continually costs teams points.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

I just think it's easier, quicker, cheaper and indeed better all round if we just get better officials in the first place and then everything looks after itself. They shouldn't keep using Halsey when it's clear that he makes constant, basic errors, never has the decency to admit his mistakes, and it continually costs teams points.

Of course your right , but when player can try and cheat and know they will get minimal punishment for it when if by chance they are caught, then the deck is well and truely stacked against the officials, just think we have the technology to help them then why not use it.

Also it must be in the back of referees minds that when they wrongly book someone for diving, managers and media make them out to be the executioner of an innocent man.

 

[NorwayFB]

Now whilst not a penalty.....is that a dive or a player anticipating contact and getting out of the way?

It's a dive for me because he doesn't put his other leg under him to try not to fall.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I just think it's easier, quicker, cheaper and indeed better all round if we just get better officials in the first place and then everything looks after itself. They shouldn't keep using Halsey when it's clear that he makes constant, basic errors, never has the decency to admit his mistakes, and it continually costs teams points.

I am sure that every official attempts to get every decision right, but that will never happen. They make mistakes, just as the players do. In my opinion the biggest problem is players attempting to cheat. They are at fault not the referee.

 

[Johnny75]

In a perfect world they wouldn't Frank but modern players just aren't particularly good characters (sweeping statement I know) in general. They may also get told by their managers to go down if touched, which is football's shame really. I sort of agree with the technology, there is no reason a linesman can't put his flag up retrospectively and award a penalty is their? Doesn't this negate all other decisions after it? Of course if the referee gives a penalty he could ask the 4th/ 5th/ 100th official in the TV booth to look and ask the Rugby style question.

For interest there are on average 27 TV cameras per ground at premiership level along with at least 1 camera from the host club. Those numbers dwindle to 6 and 1 for league 2/ conference games. I guess the issue would be consistency.

Better officials are the answer and I'm not sure only having one assessor per game is right either.