Refereeing question

[VanWolfie]

There is concern within the game regarding the standard of refereeing. I like to think I put a balanced view forward on the matter, and as such I would make the following observations.

More work than ever is done at grassroots level to help new and aspiring referees to progress. They are mentored and assessed as much as possible, but sadly there are not enough mentors and assessors available, so we have to be selective in how often new referees are observed. We aim to get them to level 5 as soon as possible, where they become senior county referees. Their next stop is level 4 where they come under the jurisdiction of the pyramid system.

Most referees are not unapproachable or arrogant, but the few that are make it difficult for others, and referees do have to be careful not to be seen over friendly with players. Who can forget Graham Poll knocking the ball around with Charlton players while waiting for the opposition to come out for the second half.

The fact that Cech got so angry should alarm people, he is one of the most placid of players who rarely remonstrated with officials.

I would agree that a lot needs to be done to improve refereeing standards, but players and managers can help by:

Cutting out the simulation.

Not get into the referees face every time a decision goes against their team.

Don't always remonstrate with the fourth official.

Referees for their part need to:

Be more consistent.

Referee more games, twenty or so a season in the PL or EFL is not enough, they should be made to referee grassroots football. All games are of equal importance to the participants.

While not being over friendly with players, be firm but approachable.

A lot of these things have been mentioned at seminars, but for things to improve we first must find a way of referees and players not being so remote and cautious to each other.

The FA have a big part to play in this, but sadly in my opinion they are not doing enough. Charging a manager or player every time he criticises the referee is not constructive. The FA need to be proactive and get referees and managers together on a regular basis.
Not for one second do I think I have all the answers to the current problems, but I think co-ordinated work on the points I have raised would be a start.

Thank you, Frank, for a most constructive piece that I hope all referees, managers, players, and the FA take serious note of. I'm largely out of the action now, having retired from being a referee and an assessor but I do watch the following online program <https://you-are-the-ref.com/the-ref-show-2nd-january-18/> which features Alan Briggs and Keith Hackett (and sometimes Mark Halsey whose commentary is way better than his refereeing was!). Hackett has been particularly critical of certain Premier League referees and regularly laments the departure of Howard Webb and Mark Clattenberg, which he puts down to less than competent allocating by the PGMOL.

 

[NoodleWolf]

Re: red cards for cynical fouls. Didn't want to derail the Verdict Thread but thought it is an interesting turn of events.

I'm gonna stick my head above the parapet and admit I've actually been wanting a ref to dish out a red for a cynical foul for ages. We're kinda inured to it, but when you really think about it, it is a dire aspect of the game. Really irritates me.

If the ball is nowhere near, the player is long gone, like in Costa's case today, or the one on De Bruyne a few days ago, you reach a point when you can't simply go "Oops, sorry ref, I was a bit late/clumsy there winkwink", and obviously everyone knows it happens and bizarrely sees cynical fouls as a thing that's acceptable as long as the player gets a yellow. "Taking one for the team" is praised. It is pretty much praise for cheating, which is... gross. And beyond that, at what point are you essentially just deliberately kicking a player? (Obvs you are doing exactly that in many cynical foul cases when reaching the ball isn't even an option). That in itself is a red. If the ball is already metres away as the player tears off into the distance, at what point does your cynical trip/chop/scythe become so utterly ridiculous it can almost be defined as an off-the-ball, deliberate moment of serious foul play, with zero intent to get the ball, and every intent to foul the player?

Discuss.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Very interesting discussion point. The best example for us I can ever really remember was Gary Breen taking a second yellow away at Norwich to prevent a goal opportunity developing. He walked for that, but it was two yellows so clearly only a yellow offence in of itself. Which is actually a bit odd, as Norwich were about to break with a massive numbers advantage that would have been very difficult for us to keep out. Because Breen took his action when he did, we only lost him for one game for two yellows. If the move was allowed to develop someone was taking three for a straight red. Is that really right or fair?

As it was Norwich I didn't particularly care, but it raises an interesting point.

 

[Tredman]

There is concern within the game regarding the standard of refereeing. I like to think I put a balanced view forward on the matter, and as such I would make the following observations.

More work than ever is done at grassroots level to help new and aspiring referees to progress. They are mentored and assessed as much as possible, but sadly there are not enough mentors and assessors available, so we have to be selective in how often new referees are observed. We aim to get them to level 5 as soon as possible, where they become senior county referees. Their next stop is level 4 where they come under the jurisdiction of the pyramid system.

Most referees are not unapproachable or arrogant, but the few that are make it difficult for others, and referees do have to be careful not to be seen over friendly with players. Who can forget Graham Poll knocking the ball around with Charlton players while waiting for the opposition to come out for the second half.

The fact that Cech got so angry should alarm people, he is one of the most placid of players who rarely remonstrated with officials.

I would agree that a lot needs to be done to improve refereeing standards, but players and managers can help by:

Cutting out the simulation.

Not get into the referees face every time a decision goes against their team.

Don't always remonstrate with the fourth official.

Referees for their part need to:

Be more consistent.

Referee more games, twenty or so a season in the PL or EFL is not enough, they should be made to referee grassroots football. All games are of equal importance to the participants.

While not being over friendly with players, be firm but approachable.

A lot of these things have been mentioned at seminars, but for things to improve we first must find a way of referees and players not being so remote and cautious to each other.

The FA have a big part to play in this, but sadly in my opinion they are not doing enough. Charging a manager or player every time he criticises the referee is not constructive. The FA need to be proactive and get referees and managers together on a regular basis.
Not for one second do I think I have all the answers to the current problems, but I think co-ordinated work on the points I have raised would be a start.

Sorry Frank, didn't see your reply until now. Agree with everything you have said, some really good points.

One I would add is to deal with all swearing and dissent to referees with instant red cards. I'm very wary of letting my children watch premier league football on TV as very often it's clearly obvious that players are swearing at referees and acting very poorly. Consistently red carding players would very quickly put an end to it. The key, like a lot of recent refereeing decisions, is consistency though.

 

[Derby Wolf]

Question about today's Leicester game.

Leicester defender passed back to the goalkeeper and nearly passed it into the goal, the goalkeeper had to tip the ball around the post for a corner. Why wasn't a free kick awarded?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Apparently if you don't pick it up then touch with the hands is okay. How true that is I don't know.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Very interesting discussion point. The best example for us I can ever really remember was Gary Breen taking a second yellow away at Norwich to prevent a goal opportunity developing. He walked for that, but it was two yellows so clearly only a yellow offence in of itself. Which is actually a bit odd, as Norwich were about to break with a massive numbers advantage that would have been very difficult for us to keep out. Because Breen took his action when he did, we only lost him for one game for two yellows. If the move was allowed to develop someone was taking three for a straight red. Is that really right or fair?

As it was Norwich I didn't particularly care, but it raises an interesting point.

Straight red isn’t and never has been a 3 game ban. The action of “serious foul play” or “violent conduct” are straight reds and 3 match ban. Other straight reds such as “denying a clear goal scoring opportunity” are 1 game.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

So Darren Ferguson thinks referees at Football League level should be shot. That is very helpful and constructive.

 

[Sniffer]

So Darren Ferguson thinks referees at Football League level should be shot. That is very helpful and constructive.

Didn't he say that they need to be fitter too. A few on here have one two things to fire back at fat fergie about his spell at Molineux!

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Didn't he say that they need to be fitter too. A few on here have one two things to fire back at fat fergie about his spell at Molineux!

No point in them getting fit if they are to be lined up against a wall and shot...!!

Fergusons comment was distasteful in the extreme and I have no doubt the Football Association will be asking him to explain his comments.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

He'll get a massive ban for that, and rightly so. It is all very well being frustrated at a poor decision, but he has crossed a line there and should feel the full weight of punishment available to the FA.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

He'll get a massive ban for that, and rightly so. It is all very well being frustrated at a poor decision, but he has crossed a line there and should feel the full weight of punishment available to the FA.

Ferguson has now apologised for what he said, but I doubt that will do him any good.

 

[Jack Regan]

He obviously has a point about the fitness levels and the fact that officials in Leagues one and two are still part time. The game is quicker now than its ever been and it's no surprise that the officials at that level are not good enough.

Rightly Ferguson will get the book thrown at him, the "shoot them" comment will also take away from the valid points he was trying to get across.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That just makes him more of a dingbat for me.

He had a valid point to put across. And he ruined it by saying something so crass that the point is lost and he will get hugely punished. Imbecilic.

 

[Johnny75]

That just makes him more of a dingbat for me.

He had a valid point to put across. And he ruined it by saying something so crass that the point is lost and he will get hugely punished. Imbecilic.

No accounting for stupidity. He just couldn't think of an appropriate response and then seemed to think of the first thing that crossed his tiny mind. It was a daft thing to say but I am sure he didn't mean it literally he's just thick.

He does have a point on fitness and there are many points in various match reports on this forum and the larger social media world that all say the standard of refereeing has gone backwards. It is now the point to make it better and I think ref's and the PGMOL are a large part of the problem as it seems they come across as they are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

 

[Kenny]

Doncaster boss Darren Ferguson has been fined £1,000 by the FA for his 'shoot referees' comment

What a pointless punishement that is. Nuno got a bigger fine than that for having a mini argument with Phil Parkinson.

 

[Tredman]

As if the lazy fecker could ever summon up enough energy to shoot someone anyway

 

[Kenny]

As if the lazy fecker could ever summon up enough energy to shoot someone anyway

My fave Fergie moment at Wolves was when he almost took the refs head off. Somehow he had skipped free of 2 players and was in on goal (30 yards out mind) but the last player clipped him and the ref pulled the game back. Fergie was furious and picked the ball up and then volleyed it at the ref and it missed him by a few inches

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Gestede's red card from Saturday. Overturned.

Where is the consistency?

 

[PuntsWolf]

It’s not a red. His feet never leave the floor and there’s not that much force in it as he’s pulling out of it and that’s why his legs are bending as he makes contact. He’s already been booked at the time so was a second yellow anyway