Newcastle (H) - 11.02.19 - Monday Night Football

[Premier Quality]

There’s very few people who think it’s a foul though - even Carragher and Kuivert when pushed to say it was said clearly not a foul. The former referees in the papers have said it wasn’t a foul. It’s only (as someone brilliantly called him on the thread earlier) Mr Creosote and the Newcastle fans who think it was.

 

[Sniffer]

Yep. Quite like the way rugby officials use replays, and the onfield ref directs what to look at.

Its hardly flawless though. In the England France game on Sunday there were good reasons to reverse the Penalty Try and the Owen Farrell try yet the ref chose not to.

 

[Johnny75]

Its hardly flawless though. In the England France game on Sunday there were good reasons to reverse the Penalty Try and the Owen Farrell try yet the ref chose not to.

It's not perfect and always susceptible to human error but what we have right now is a review, which is ambiguous nonsense.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

Look at it, I have many times, Boly was leaning backwards with no weight on the keeper and his hand were up long before the keeper raised his.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

I know *technically* VAR requires a major error, but having seen the way it worked in the World Cup, the decision would absolutely have been overruled. The still/super-slow-mo of Boly with his hands over the keeper's eyes would have killed any chance of the goal standing.

That's not to say I think it should be a foul, but that is the effect of looking at things closely.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I know *technically* VAR requires a major error, but having seen the way it worked in the World Cup, the decision would absolutely have been overruled. The still/super-slow-mo of Boly with his hands over the keeper's eyes would have killed any chance of the goal standing.

That's not to say I think it should be a foul, but that is the effect of looking at things closely.

I agree, the use of super slow mo for VAR annoys me, it makes fouls/contact far more exaggerated, i think they should have to watch the replays at real speed

 

[Premier Quality]

Why would that be the case Mobnet? The ref said no foul, the guys looking at the video after the game said no foul, and the former referees reviewing for newspapers said no foul - what makes you think VAR would think differently?

 

[Aikiwolf]

So... As someone from the anti-VAR camp we're now saying, "VAR will make football fairer, apart from when in slow mo and it doesn't?"

 

[Johnny75]

So... As someone from the anti-VAR camp we're now saying, "VAR will make football fairer, apart from when in slow mo and it doesn't?"

It does make football fairer and will get decisions right but it won't be perfect. We're going from 90% right to 99% right. Who wouldn't want that?

 

[MobNet Wolf]

Why would that be the case Mobnet? The ref said no foul, the guys looking at the video after the game said no foul, and the former referees reviewing for newspapers said no foul - what makes you think VAR would think differently?

Did you watch the World Cup. Small incidents (handballs, minor fouls etc.) that in normal speed no-one considered fouls were enhanced through the use of VAR. If the referee went to the dugout to watch the Boly incident, I'm sure under intense pressure he would have disallowed the goal for the minor contact.

It's easy for pundits to comment after the game that they thought the goal should stand. It is probably in their interest to look like "proper football men". I just don't think we would have got the benefit of the doubt if the decision was truly on the line.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's easy for pundits to comment after the game that they thought the goal should stand. It is probably in their interest to look like "proper football men". I just don't think we would have got the benefit of the doubt if the decision was truly on the line.

But we'd have got penalties at Brighton and Fulham, pulled it back to 2-1 against Spurs at home, not conceded to Palace with their offside goal...

 

[Aikiwolf]

It does make football fairer and will get decisions right but it won't be perfect. We're going from 90% right to 99% right. Who wouldn't want that?

According to this article it's currently at 98% accuracy (and that echos a long ago conversation with Kevin Friend)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ing-how-many-decisions-do-officials-get-right

Anyway, I think football is more exciting with the 2% of mistakes and that VAR changes the fluidity of the game for a potential 1% improvement.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

According to this article it's currently at 98% accuracy (and that echos a long ago conversation with Kevin Friend)

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ing-how-many-decisions-do-officials-get-right

Anyway, I think football is more exciting with the 2% of mistakes and that VAR changes the fluidity of the game for a potential 1% improvement.

The problem with that stat is that includes stuff that a one eyed chimp would get right, blatant fouls, someone being literally 10 yards offside, just giving a goal kick when a shot goes wide and so on.

On the marginal decisions our officials are very poor. Then you get stuff that isn't even marginal, like Doc vs Spurs.

 

[Aikiwolf]

The problem with that stat is that includes stuff that a one eyed chimp would get right, blatant fouls, someone being literally 10 yards offside, just giving a goal kick when a shot goes wide and so on.

On the marginal decisions our officials are very poor. Then you get stuff that isn't even marginal, like Doc vs Spurs.

Just to be clear, my stance is not based on "I wish Wolves got more decisions". It's objective and is about the holistic impact on football rather than club specific. When the discussion is around Wolves then we are emotionally entwined and that leads to a debate that doesn't look at football holistically but a desire for our club to be as successful as possible.

Also I feel this means larger clubs are more likely to have success, reducing things like fa cup upsets etc.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd argue the opposite, if officials can take an objective second look at events, there'll be fewer big club decisions.

To go back a few years, there's no way Fabregas or Lampard escape with bookings at Molineux for their assaults on Ward/Hammill.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I'd argue the opposite, if officials can take an objective second look at events, there'll be fewer big club decisions.

To go back a few years, there's no way Fabregas or Lampard escape with bookings at Molineux for their assaults on Ward/Hammill.

But Millwall would be out of this years FA cup because their second goal shouldn't have counted...

Im essence the better the club the more the team has the ball in dangerous areas and therefore more likely to get more decisions, therefore VAR is more likely to benefit clubs who have the ball in more threatening areas and drawing more potential fouls and so a greater chance of being on the receiving end of a beneficial decision.

Obviously this is all hypothetical at the moment but we will find out next season if it's as beneficial as it's proponents claim or as negatively impacting as people like me belive it could be.

 

[Kenny]

My one hope for next season is we play Newcastle (if Rafa is still in charge) and the game is decided on a decision thanks VAR in our favour.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Im essence the better the club the more the team has the ball in dangerous areas and therefore more likely to get more decisions, therefore VAR is more likely to benefit clubs who have the ball in more threatening areas and drawing more potential fouls and so a greater chance of being on the receiving end of a beneficial decision.

Chesterfield vs Boro, 1997...

I don't personally think big clubs have a load of stonewall pens turned down when they face clubs lower down the pyramid.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

VAR for me is going to be a game changer. Reviews in crocket changed the game a lot.

Cheating will be so easy to spot and rectify in football.

There will be more penalties. There have to be as the benefit of the doubt is significantly less , but its the same for both sides.

 

[Aikiwolf]

Chesterfield vs Boro, 1997...

I don't personally think big clubs have a load of stonewall pens turned down when they face clubs lower down the pyramid.

Don't think we will ever see eye to eye on this subject! As we've been unable to thrash it out in the London it's not going to happen over t'internet!