Live Match Discussion 2022/23

[Elephant Pyjamas]

That's as bad a tackle as you can get, jumping in and wrapping his legs around him from the side.

I'd rather 2 foot studs up from the front, he's thrown all his weight around the Liverpool player from the side. Madness anyone can say that tackles not a red card

Ah, the old "i'd rather he punched me on the nose than spat in my face" type argument.

If that is a red card then Cooper should have been sent off a few minutes later, i'm sure there were others too, but i don't remember them because they weren't notable. This tackle was notable because of the injury.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It's not from behind either, it's from the side, they are both running in the same direction, it's nothing like a CF protecting the ball and a CB going through him, which IS outlawed.


The challenge is from behind and frankly avoidable it’s his choice of challenge that causes the injury ultimately. Not that he intended but had other options as I said earlier.
The challenge he makes causes his whole body weight to go onto the back of Harvey’s Calfs/ankle.
Did he have to make that challenge where he was in relation to the player and where it was on the field?
The fact is he has got the injury so the argument that if he doesn’t no one looks twice is pointless because the level of contact would need to be different to have avoided.
At the end of the day player (a) suffers a ankle break due to player (b) choosing to make a tackle that causes his whole body weight to go onto player (a) ankle/calf.
poor decision making leading to injury should mean punishment of some sort.

It's not from behind!? He is running alongside him.

The outlawed challenge from behind was to protect centre forwards who would gather the ball in and have a CB come straight through the back of them, it wasn't for this type of challenge at all.

Struijk has made the challenge with one leg, but his trailing leg has caught Elliott and that has caused the injury, he wasn't out of control, it was just something that can happen sometimes. Trailing legs often make contact with a player in a tackle, but they hardly ever cause an injury so this sort of frame by frame analysis never happens.

 

[jd1981]

We're not going to agree, i don't even think it's a foul.

One thing we can agree on (i think) is that if he doesn't get injured, then we aren't having this conversation now, as the game would have just carried on.

It's not from behind!? He is running alongside him.

The outlawed challenge from behind was to protect centre forwards who would gather the ball in and have a CB come straight through the back of them, it wasn't for this type of challenge at all.

Struijk has made the challenge with one leg, but his trailing leg has caught Elliott and that has caused the injury, he wasn't out of control, it was just something that can happen sometimes. Trailing legs often make contact with a player in a tackle, but they hardly ever cause an injury so this sort of frame by frame analysis never happens.

So his choice of tackle caused the injury? If it’s “something that can happen” then it’s best not make the challenge. The way you’ve described makes it seem very much like a scissor tackle.
I’ll ask again was that the only thing or challenge he could’ve made in that situation? Or could he have done something else?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I note you ignore my comments regarding the Pogba tackle and Cooper tackle.

A scissor tackle is when 2 legs trap 1 leg between them and are both fully extended, that didn't happen. His first leg went down the side of Elliott and won the ball, as he got up, his trailing leg caught Elliott's leg and it broke.

I think ultimately what you are saying is, if a player gets injured due to contact from an opponent they should be punished?

 

[WolfMan]

That's as bad a tackle as you can get, jumping in and wrapping his legs around him from the side.

I'd rather 2 foot studs up from the front, he's thrown all his weight around the Liverpool player from the side. Madness anyone can say that tackles not a red card

Gary Neville was saying it wasn't a red card on the commentary wasn't he.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Gary Neville was saying it wasn't a red card on the commentary wasn't he.

Yes, said he got the red card because of the injury, rather than the tackle, and he's right. (IMO etc.)

 

[jd1981]

I note you ignore my comments regarding the Pogba tackle and Cooper tackle.

A scissor tackle is when 2 legs trap 1 leg between them, that didn't happen. His first leg went down the side of Elliott and won the ball, as he got up, his trailing leg caught Elliott's leg and it broke.

I think ultimately what you are saying is, if a player gets injured due to contact from an opponent they should be punished?

Cooper times his challenge better and doesn’t have the same level of contact.
Pogba had studs showing and endangered Neves so probably should have gone.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I note you ignore my comments regarding the Pogba tackle and Cooper tackle.

Cooper times his challenge better and doesn’t have the same level of contact.
Pogba had studs showing and endangered Neves so probably should have gone.

And if Neves had gone down injured, he probably would have, and that's what is wrong isn't it!

Dean doesn't give a foul because he doesn't believe there was contact because Neves didn't go down injured.
Pawson doesn't give Struijk any form of punishment (or a free kick) until Elliott's injury becomes clear.

That is not how it should be.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

From what you've argued a player should be punished if a player obtains an injury when a tackle is made on him as "he didn't HAVE to make the challenge" that is ALWAYS the case.

 

[AndyWolves]

I wonder if this means Liverpool might be more interested in Sanches now

 

[jd1981]

From what you've argued a player should be punished if a player obtains an injury when a tackle is made on him as "he didn't HAVE to make the challenge" that is ALWAYS the case.

Just about most serious injuries caused to the lower limbs from contact from an opponent are due to either wrong choice, Excessive force and poor timing.
You’ve also missed a key point here and that’s the pace at which Elliott and Strujik were moving at the time. It means the challenge that strujik made became excessive due to the f sh lees both he and Elliott were moving at. Comes down to split second decision making and timing unfortunately strujik got his slightly off causing the excessive force to the legs thus endangering his opponent.
Look we’re never going to agree on this one so lets accept you see it as a non red I see it differently.

 

[AndyWolves]

It's really difficult, a few seconds earlier or later and it's a nothing incident.

 

[Alan]

The kind of scissor tackle is absolutely a red in my book.

 

[AndyWolves]

The kind of scissor tackle is absolutely a red in my book.

It wasn't though, Strujik came alongside Elliott.

Linky

The legs couldn't be how they are if it had been a sissor

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Just about most serious injuries caused to the lower limbs from contact from an opponent are due to either wrong choice, Excessive force and poor timing.
You’ve also missed a key point here and that’s the pace at which Elliott and Strujik were moving at the time. It means the challenge that strujik made became excessive due to the f sh lees both he and Elliott were moving at. Comes down to split second decision making and timing unfortunately strujik got his slightly off causing the excessive force to the legs thus endangering his opponent.
Look we’re never going to agree on this one so lets accept you see it as a non red I see it differently.

You still haven't answered my question, everything you say points to you thinking that a player should be punished based on the injury the opponent receives?

 

[jd1981]

It's really difficult, a few seconds earlier or later and it's a nothing incident.

You still haven't answered my question, everything you say points to you thinking that a player should be punished based on the injury the opponent receives?

If the force used is excessive and endangers an opponent then yes it should. As I said on the previous post it’s not very often that serious injury to the lower limb isn’t caused by a missed timed tackle or excessive force.
IMO taking every factor into account in today’s incident ie timing, pace and point of contact meant excessive force was used.

 

[AndyWolves]

If the force used is excessive and endangers an opponent then yes it should. As I said on the previous post it’s not very often that serious injury to the lower limb isn’t caused by a missed timed tackle or excessive force.
IMO taking every factor into account in today’s incident ie timing, pace and point of contact meant excessive force was used.

Good point, if it's timing that's deciding whether it's dangerous or not then that's on the player making the challenge.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I wonder if this means Liverpool might be more interested in Sanches now

Nope, they already have ridiculous amounts of central midfielders. Henderson, Milner, Keita and Jones were all on the bench today.

 

[Stan Hullis]

All that money that Everton have spent over the years and they start with Demari Gray and Andros Townsend tonight

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

And the first 17 minutes have been awful. Dreadful game.