Live Match Discussion 2017/18

[Alan]

The problem with that is a lot of the kids are picked up at very early ages. Pretty sure the commentary said our last substitute has been with Chelsea since he was 6 years old. If you get a chance to learn from top coaches at such an early age, parents are hardly gonna tell them to sod off, we're gonna have our kid play for the local community kids team instead.

Are they top coaches, though? They sure don't seem to have helped many British youths reach their potential.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You can't blame kids in their early to mid teens for going to the best clubs with the best facilities with the best money on offer.

When it's someone like Dom Solanke moving from one club where he'll never play to another where he'll never play and he's nearly 20, that's a different story.

 

[Alan]

It's not just British kids though is it? Look at Odegaard, he was conquering all in front of him at 15 but honestly haven't heard anything for a couple of years. He chose the bright lights of Real when in all reality he wouldn't be anywhere near their first team for a few years at least.

Perhaps it's just a greed thing, maybe kids these days are only interested if they'll be at the top, so if that chance comes at 18 then they jump at it regardless of how difficult the progression may be. Many end up falling out of the game, some drop to lower leagues and eventually work their way back up but any that have been at a big club in their late teens will get a decent pay cheque to start the next chapter of their life.

I think it's the one massive advantage for the B team system that other countries use, they can give these kids competitive games sort of in house whilst monitoring their development. The ones that are good enough will eventually drip through to the first team and the others that fall away at least have the advantage of competitive experience to impress other clubs.

It has always seemed to me that European leagues have far fewer British players than British leagues have European players. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks from my armchair.

Like I say, I can't fault any kid for taking the money, but from a structural point of view having the big clubs hoover up all the most talented players is clearly not helping things.

Maybe the answer is limiting how many youth players you can have out on loan even further. Try to distribute the talent pool. I dunno.

 

[Jack Regan]

Are they top coaches, though? They sure don't seem to have helped many British youths reach their potential.

As the England team has just won the u17 world cup. I suspect they're better coaches than you're average every man once a week local coach yes.

 

[Alan]

As the England team has just won the u17 world cup. I suspect they're better coaches than you're average every man once a week local coach yes.

I was referring more specifically to youth coaches at the clubs.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

You can't blame kids in their early to mid teens for going to the best clubs with the best facilities with the best money on offer.

When it's someone like Dom Solanke moving from one club where he'll never play to another where he'll never play and he's nearly 20, that's a different story.

I can see why some would make that sort of switch though. Without Chelsea's Vitesse connection Solanke would have pretty much no first team experience I think? So what's he got on his CV to try and tempt someone into making him an offer of a more integral position? Why drop to say Peterborough or somewhere and have to spend time sitting as someone's understudy when you could do the same in the much slicker surroundings of Anfield getting paid perhaps 10x as much? I mean he could end up leaving Liverpool in a few years with still only a handful of first team games to his name and walk away from football but he'd probably be a millionaire who could do whatever he wanted with the rest of his life. Dropping leagues might have kept his football career going but come his mid-thirties he might be popping down the job centre to find a way of keeping up with the mortgage payments.

It has always seemed to me that European leagues have far fewer British players than British leagues have European players. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks from my armchair.

Like I say, I can't fault any kid for taking the money, but from a structural point of view having the big clubs hoover up all the most talented players is clearly not helping things.

Well there's a lot more money in British football than most leagues so that'll draw more kids here from elsewhere, whilst also retaining the natives.

I was talking more of that it wasn't purely a British issue of young players going to the biggest club possible at the earliest opportunity and probably stunting their development as a result.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Dom Solanke could have had his pick of Premier League clubs :icon_lol: Just Liverpool was a stupid move. Who's talking about moving to Peterborough, he'd have got a gig at Southampton or Stoke and he'd be playing.

 

[Jack Regan]

I was referring more specifically to youth coaches at the clubs.

You mean the club's where these players probably train every day of the week? Then the answer would most definitely be yes. Let's put it this way, I'm 10 years old I have the option to play for Wednesfield under 11's or join Wolves academy it's a no brainer. I'm damn sure the full time professional coaches at Wolves are going be better qualified than a bloke doing it once a week down the local park.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Dom Solanke could have had his pick of Premier League clubs :icon_lol: Just Liverpool was a stupid move. Who's talking about moving to Peterborough, he'd have got a gig at Southampton or Stoke and he'd be playing.

Can't imagine there were really many chasing him for their first team plans, Southampton have a ~£15m Italy international up top and Stoke signed a one time Real Madrid 'next big thing', I don't think Dom 'knocked it about for Vitesse once' Solanke was really the profile they were looking for to rival the incumbents.

 

[YoungWolf]

I was referring more specifically to youth coaches at the clubs.

Academy coaching is at a fantastic level now, better than ever before particularly in Category 1 clubs in England. We beat ourselves up a lot as a nation but our youth players from 14-19 are up there with all of the other top footballing countries. I've just finished on an U15 camp (quite bizarre watching the 17s today while being at St.George's park) and the level of detail is incredible across the departments.

The talent and potential is there, it's now about the best way to provide pathways and opportunities at first team level. If we had more coaches like Pochettino it might be easier as he just trusts the young players, but we need to find other solutions with situations like Chelsea's young players. At another club Mason Mount would have made first team apparwanves by now in the Premier League. And there are many more examples of this.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Jese isn't a striker, Southampton have been resorting lately to picking Shane "2 league goals in 2017" Long up top. I think either team would have rather fancied having one of the top young English strikers among their ranks. If he's shit then why are Liverpool signing him?

Your argument's all over the place.

 

[Alan]

Well I didn't mean Wolves vs. Wednesfield or Southampton vs. Yeovil, but Chelsea/Man City/Man U vs. Wolves/Watford/West Brom, that kind of thing.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Jese isn't a striker, Southampton have been resorting lately to picking Shane "2 league goals in 2017" Long up top. I think either team would have rather fancied having one of the top young English strikers among their ranks. If he's shit then why are Liverpool signing him?

Your argument's all over the place.

Because at Liverpool there's no expectation for him to do anything, it's a relative low cost gamble for them. The clubs lower down are going to want more immediate return from their investments, or they'll just pay less than the big boys with more cash.

I bet more Championship clubs were ringing up Chelsea this summer trying to get in touch with Tammy Abraham, even though he'd blatantly only be a short term deal, than trying to get Solanke to make the free transfer. The former has got more on his CV to show he'd be making a positive contribution sooner, Solanke would've been a gamble even at this level given his lack of previous competitive football. You said yourself the other day about Ward-prowse that youth football is a poor yardstick.

Only the big clubs are going to throw big money at these gambles so that's where most will end up, inevitably sitting on the bench or in the reserves, rather than proving their worth on the pitch lower down the table/leagues.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Of course it'll be a gamble, I didn't say otherwise (I do think he's a better option than Shane Long or Mame Biram Diouf though).

I wasn't the one saying that it was Chelsea or Peterborough, nothing in between. There's no way Solanke would have to go anything like that low down the pyramid.

Elsewhere Steve Martin getting a pasting from both managers in the Cardiff vs Millwall game. A truly awful referee.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Of course it'll be a gamble, I didn't say otherwise (I do think he's a better option than Shane Long or Mame Biram Diouf though).

I wasn't the one saying that it was Chelsea or Peterborough, nothing in between. There's no way Solanke would have to go anything like that low down the pyramid.

Elsewhere Steve Martin getting a pasting from both managers in the Cardiff vs Millwall game. A truly awful referee.

Well if you're going to take random examples so literally, do you think he'd have been working his way into Wolves first team this season?

Plenty of money about at this level now allowing the clubs with genuine ambitions of promotion to go after a more proven player than gambles like Solanke. I just don't see him getting much guarantee of first team football from many teams in the top two leagues, and those that might wouldn't have anything like the financial incentive of an offer from Liverpool even as a bit part player.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If we'd have signed him he'd have been our #1 striker. Absolutely no doubt about that.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I remain sceptical.

 

[YoungWolf]

If we'd have signed him he'd have been our #1 striker. Absolutely no doubt about that.

Agree. Solanke is very highly rated within the game (hence why Liverpool signed him really). We would never have got him anyway even had we tried.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Currently watching match of the day, and given the empty seats at the Hawthorns, what kind of attendances would the Albion get if they were relegated?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

About the same as now if they appointed someone who bothers playing football.

Pulis is poison. Horrible man, horrible manager. You can only spend so long watching that drivel for next to zero reward.