Leeds 1-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[PuntsWolf]

To be fair, Raphina was a massive thorn in our side until he went off, I wish we had a quick player that could terrorise opponents just by running at them, but we can all dream can't we, with RAN I think people were blinded by the fact that he was the only one making runs into the box which he managed a few times, to say that side of his game was shit is a tad harsh, his defending was atrocious though.

I honestly expected more from him though.
. Maybe it was the angle from my seat, but looked a few times in the first half where he was basically going to be in on goal down the left but got completely outpaced, or didn’t commit to winning the ball. I thought one of his strongest attributes was pace, maybe it isn’t.

 

[Paul]

At the end of the day when one of the only positives you can take from a game is 'the three central defenders were solid' it about sums it up

 

[AndyWolves]

I must admit to being a little surprised at the OTT reaction too.

- we scored 35 goals last season
- Raul isn't firing yet
- we've had 5 or 6 poor transfer windows with the most recent one described as abysmal
- we've got a new manager who has managed 9 times in the PL
- we're crap against teams that press and Leeds press the most in the PL


The performance was poor but I'd take the result every day of the week.

We've won as many as we've lost, scored as many as we've conceded and played well is as many games as we haven't. We're the definition of average right now.

 

[big mean bunny]

Taking the result if a specific game and being confident in what's happening so far or overall is different.

I am happy with the league position at current. I don't quite see the view we won't get relegated or be clear of relegation though. I don't think we will, but I don't look at this side and performances so far and rule out the idea they could go on another winless or scoreless run, or that there could be times throughout the year were it's nervy.

 

[AndyWolves]

I suppose I don't think wolves have the squad / players / style of play to dominate a team who play like Leeds do. Therefore, the performance wasn't unexpected

 

[prawnking]

I don't quite see the view we won't get relegated or be clear of relegation though. I don't think we will, but I don't look at this side and performances so far and rule out the idea they could go on another winless or scoreless run, or that there could be times throughout the year were it's nervy.

It's still fairly early days in the league, but there's three teams who haven't won a game yet.

Even without everything firing on all cylinders, Bruno has shown that he can be pragmatic and get victories.

4-1-1 in the league since the opening three defeats.

 

[Tony Towner]

Seems to me that any criticism seems to trigger the 'but Nuno' response and is treated as some pre conceived agenda, which is all a bit sad.

 

[Carsy]

I must admit to being a little surprised at the OTT reaction too.

- we scored 35 goals last season
- Raul isn't firing yet
- we've had 5 or 6 poor transfer windows with the most recent one described as abysmal
- we've got a new manager who has managed 9 times in the PL
- we're crap against teams that press and Leeds press the most in the PL


The performance was poor but I'd take the result every day of the week.

We've won as many as we've lost, scored as many as we've conceded and played well is as many games as we haven't. We're the definition of average right now.

Pretty much sums it up. Leeds are a real strange team to play against with how they press.

At what stage does the ‘Raul isn’t firing yet’ turn into a major concern though? Taking nothing away from the horror injury, but at what stage should we expect him
To return?

Wasn’t a fan of him throwing himself to the ground at every opportunity yesterday, mind.

 

[Carsy]

I suppose I don't think wolves have the squad / players / style of play to dominate a team who play like Leeds do. Therefore, the performance wasn't unexpected

I agree with this to be fair. The Leeds team can be passed around to beat the press, but we lack the composed ball players to do that IMO.

 

[prawnking]

Seems to me that any criticism seems to trigger the 'but Nuno' response and is treated as some pre conceived agenda, which is all a bit sad.

Sure, Nuno could be pragmatic when he needed to be (and even when he didn't), but it's a totally different situation if we're comparing him with Bruno.

Nuno came in to a lower league, bought a sprinkling of vastly superior players, had a full season at that level to develop a relationship with players and an effective style, and then was supported after promotion with some of the best players we've ever seen, like Rui, Joao, Raul, Jonny and Adama

These aren't Bruno's players, he hasn't been supported in his vision as Nuno was, and as much as people pretend that if we were still playing pretty but pointless they'd be lapping it up, in reality if we were where Burnley or Newcastle are there'd be calls for his head already.

 

[AndyWolves]

Sure, Nuno could be pragmatic when he needed to be (and even when he didn't), but it's a totally different situation if we're comparing him with Bruno.

Nuno came in to a lower league, bought a sprinkling of vastly superior players, had a full season at that level to develop a relationship with players and an effective style, and then was supported after promotion with some of the best players we've ever seen, like Rui, Joao, Raul, Jonny and Adama

These aren't Bruno's players, he hasn't been supported in his vision as Nuno was, and as much as people pretend that if we were still playing pretty but pointless they'd be lapping it up, in reality if we were where Burnley or Newcastle are there'd be calls for his head already.

Exactly, if we'd signed Botman and Sanches then we'd absolutely be expecting more

 

[WolfMan]

Sanches would have been perfect for yesterday, beat the press and drive forward with it. Such a shame he was injured till Christmas.........

 

[slink]

My only worry, and I so want him to succeed, is that he is yet to show any sign that he is the future, if you know what I mean, I haven't seen anything yet that any other league manager couldn't have achieved with the players at his disposal.

I would say 10 games isn’t a big enough sample to evaluate it properly. He’s probably not getting everything from them but it’s also the nature of the squad at the moment. Inconsistent attacking players, a light immobile midfield and a defence that if you ask everyone on the forum most would want to replace them. He does need to try and get us more relaxed on the ball again but unless we’re not picking up points i think we need to give him time until he’s got more of his own players.

 

[Tony Towner]

if we were where Burnley or Newcastle are there'd be calls for his head already.

And rightly so as despite the deficiencies which are very much of the boards rather than Bruno's making we aren't a bottom 3 team. Equally if Nuno was still here and that's where we were sat he'd be fired and I doubt many would be against it.

People were happy/accepting that Nuno left because last season was a painful watch and felt that he was holding the players back, all of which I think has a ring of truth to it. I said at the time, I would have given him the start of this season, but could see why the decision was made and if it was felt he wasn't going to get out of that slump then we were wasting a pre season and half a dozen games by keeping him

Bruno was brought in to play better football and we saw in the first 3 games that was possible without getting the results. We have about the right points total for the squad we have, given the opposition we have played and obviously results is the metric which is way more important than any other, but we aren't playing well. Last week as enjoyable as it was a freak result and the other none defeats have been broadly about being the better of 2 poor teams. Now I'd rather beat Southampton 1-0 than hammer Utd and lose 1-0, but surely there has to be a middle ground? We are playing 5 at the back due to necessity, which I hang completely on the Board and clearly hampers what he is trying to achieve, but even so, 'they are Nuno's players what do you expect', seems inconsistent with 'Nuno is holding these players back'.

I posted Ryan Lester's tweet earlier because he was on board with the Nuno decision and excited about the Bruno appointment, but can see we don't seem to have a discernable game plan or pattern of play. Defaulting to 'but Nuno' or citing agendas as some have to dismiss any genuine concern or criticism is cheap and adds nothing to any debate.

As I said yesterday, before the game I'd have been happy with a 1-1 draw, post game I'm not as surely the result has to be analysed within the context of the match?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I suppose I don't think wolves have the squad / players / style of play to dominate a team who play like Leeds do. Therefore, the performance wasn't unexpected

You don't have to dominate teams, Leicester won the league with a mentality of letting the opposition have the ball. What you want to see is the team at least look to compete and land the odd blow on their opponents.

Yesterday Wolves started off looking to do that by playing longer balls into the channels behind Leeds' fullbacks. Didn't need to 'dominate' to make that work, just a bit of a decoy run to drag their defenders out and then someone run into the space. They gave up on doing that with less than a quarter of the game played though. After that it was a nothing performance.

 

[Johnny75]

I would say 10 games isn’t a big enough sample to evaluate it properly. He’s probably not getting everything from them but it’s also the nature of the squad at the moment. Inconsistent attacking players, a light immobile midfield and a defence that if you ask everyone on the forum most would want to replace them. He does need to try and get us more relaxed on the ball again but unless we’re not picking up points i think we need to give him time until he’s got more of his own players.

I look at the work Tuchel has done at Chelsea and I can see parallels with the first 3 games. The biggest difference seems to be mentality and the wing backs.

We do not have the quality at wing back at 3-4-3 obviously. But a midfield 2 of Moutinho and Neves isn’t that much different to Chelsea’s pair of Kovacic + Jorghino, in that neither of those two are that mobile either. Our front 3 are similar in style but of obvious lower quality and our back 3 are the same.

I can also see that Lage wanted to play a similar style to Tuchel with the high press and fast movement but for some reason he’s completely abandoned it after 3 games and turned us into a Championship style lump it forward team.

That’s all in 10 games and it’s getting worse not better and the players look increasingly lost game by game.

 

[AndyWolves]

You don't have to dominate teams, Leicester won the league with a mentality of letting the opposition have the ball. What you want to see is the team at least look to compete and land the odd blow on their opponents.

Yesterday Wolves started off looking to do that by playing longer balls into the channels behind Leeds' fullbacks. Didn't need to 'dominate' to make that work, just a bit of a decoy run to drag their defenders out and then someone run into the space. They gave up on doing that with less than a quarter of the game played though. After that it was a nothing performance.

Maybe dominate is the wrong word, Leeds have the players and a style of play that has always caused us problems.

Maybe playing 352 with more legs in midfield might have allowed us to complete more.

Until we can find a way of playing 4 at the back to give us an extra player further up the pitch i think we'll continue to struggle in these kinds of games.

 

[Johnny75]

Maybe dominate is the wrong word, Leeds have the players and a style of play that has always caused us problems.

Maybe playing 352 with more legs in midfield might have allowed us to complete more.

Until we can find a way of playing 4 at the back to give us an extra player further up the pitch i think we'll continue to struggle in these kinds of games.

Can you explain why we beat Leeds last season then?

 

[slink]

You don't have to dominate teams, Leicester won the league with a mentality of letting the opposition have the ball. What you want to see is the team at least look to compete and land the odd blow on their opponents.

Yesterday Wolves started off looking to do that by playing longer balls into the channels behind Leeds' fullbacks. Didn't need to 'dominate' to make that work, just a bit of a decoy run to drag their defenders out and then someone run into the space. They gave up on doing that with less than a quarter of the game played though. After that it was a nothing performance.

You’re spot on Mark you don’t have to dominate the ball as teams have often shown.

We did start off playing those balls. Cooper was excellent against Traore every time but Semedo got in behind for the goal and RAN/Hwang did waste a few opportunities on the other side. I don’t think they gave up doing it intentionally Leeds pressed more and we just completely dropped as a team so the option wasn’t there especially down the right. When it did go up both Hwang and Raul didn’t hold it up well enough and Coady said that to Bruno’s brother as they came off at half time.

Once we were in that mode we did struggle to get out of it but we should have done better on a few counters. Despite all of that and the Leeds pressure they had 2 chances, the one caused by Coady’s awful clip and the pen. It’s not like they were peppering the goal.

 

[Johnny75]

Leeds finishing wasn’t great until Gelhardt came on but they had plenty of shots and Raphina on another day would’ve scored but he was off yesterday.

If your frontmen aren’t holding the ball up then why would you continue to play in such a manner? Seems nuts not to change it.