Keir Starmer at it again..

[Paddingtonwolf]

Most climate change deniers were Tory anyway.

 

[lemonjelly]

but, like brexit, it emboldens more to be vocal.

 

[prawnking]

but, like brexit, it emboldens more to be vocal.

So what would you recommend Labour do to counter this, then?

 

[Del Woppio]

I don't think you can counter it per se, but they do need to just grow a pair and shout it down for the absolute idiocy that it is. Stand up and say that the new licences will be revoked, we'll go big, early, on onshore wind and other green energy infrastructure, they'll offer more help for scrappage/upgrades on ULEZ affected families. Windfall tax on the banks who are going to be disgustingly wealthy given the interest rates, and retrospective windfall tax on the massive war profiteering done by BP, Shell and the like.

Literally ridicule climate change deniers in the press. You won't change their minds whatever you do, but the least you can do is try and embarrass them into shutting the fuck the up before it's too late

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I don't think you can counter it per se, but they do need to just grow a pair and shout it down for the absolute idiocy that it is. Stand up and say that the new licences will be revoked, we'll go big, early, on onshore wind and other green energy infrastructure, they'll offer more help for scrappage/upgrades on ULEZ affected families. Windfall tax on the banks who are going to be disgustingly wealthy given the interest rates, and retrospective windfall tax on the massive war profiteering done by BP, Shell and the like.

Literally ridicule climate change deniers in the press. You won't change their minds whatever you do, but the least you can do is try and embarrass them into shutting the fuck the up before it's too late

I’m not sure this is ever going to be Starmer, he is not an ideologist like Blair. Blair knew what he wanted the Labour Party to be, centre right economically, centre left socially….Blair might have been a bit light on policy but there was no doubt about the direction of travel. With Starmer, he Isn’t going to pin his mast to any of these things now because they all “look” socialist or “too green”.

Three big issues at the moment…the economy, post Brexit, the climate and he doesn’t have any clear and consistent policy. I get the argument that he doesn’t need to say anything to probably win the next election but the downside to that is that he isn’t shouting down the idiocy, that makes him an enabler of it.

 

[Templeton Peck]

I don't think you can counter it per se, but they do need to just grow a pair and shout it down for the absolute idiocy that it is. Stand up and say that the new licences will be revoked, we'll go big, early, on onshore wind and other green energy infrastructure, they'll offer more help for scrappage/upgrades on ULEZ affected families. Windfall tax on the banks who are going to be disgustingly wealthy given the interest rates, and retrospective windfall tax on the massive war profiteering done by BP, Shell and the like.

Literally ridicule climate change deniers in the press. You won't change their minds whatever you do, but the least you can do is try and embarrass them into shutting the fuck the up before it's too late

Make the arguments. Change the conversation. Exactly this. People believed austerity was handed down by God on tablets of stone until the Labour Party said it was bollocks.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

I don't think you can counter it per se, but they do need to just grow a pair and shout it down for the absolute idiocy that it is. Stand up and say that the new licences will be revoked, we'll go big, early, on onshore wind and other green energy infrastructure, they'll offer more help for scrappage/upgrades on ULEZ affected families. Windfall tax on the banks who are going to be disgustingly wealthy given the interest rates, and retrospective windfall tax on the massive war profiteering done by BP, Shell and the like.

Literally ridicule climate change deniers in the press. You won't change their minds whatever you do, but the least you can do is try and embarrass them into shutting the fuck the up before it's too late

Agree with everything apart from the final words - it probably is already too late. I’ve said for a long time that the voters here and elsewhere will never vote for the measures necessary to make a real impact. Small steps have been taken when it needs giant strides. The fact we are still fitting gas boilers in new build houses and make no real effort to insulate older houses illustrates it perfectly. We are a tiny island with an extremely high standard of living and if we can’t take simple measures I fear that temperatures will rise quicker and quicker and by the time enough people realise it we’ll be so far down the road no measures will make any discernible difference.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Make the arguments. Change the conversation. Exactly this. People believed austerity was handed down by God on tablets of stone until the Labour Party said it was bollocks.

Well, they didn't say that did they, they agreed with it from about 2010-16

 

[Templeton Peck]

Well, they didn't say that did they, they agreed with it from about 2010-16

Well yeah. They said it for a bit. Changed back again now though of course!

 

[leedswolf]

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Labour costs pass £500,000 in hearing over leaked antisemitism report

Exclusive: Spending on case against five former staffers is rising, causing concern among some in party

www.theguardian.com

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I know the theory is that Starmer is playing the game with his U turns or just being passive on policy, but how many votes would this good policy have won/lost? Can't have been many, but it's been scrapped.

Labour U-turns on plan to scrap charitable status of private schools

The Opposition still plans to apply VAT to school fees in a bid to raise more than £1bn. Sky News understands the reasoning behind the change in tack is partly because applying VAT is much easier than changing the charitable status of schools.

news.sky.com

 

[Templeton Peck]

I know the theory is that Starmer is playing the game with his U turns or just being passive on policy, but how many votes would this good policy have won/lost? Can't have been many, but it's been scrapped.

Labour U-turns on plan to scrap charitable status of private schools

The Opposition still plans to apply VAT to school fees in a bid to raise more than £1bn. Sky News understands the reasoning behind the change in tack is partly because applying VAT is much easier than changing the charitable status of schools.

news.sky.com

Scared of his own shadow.

I pray they do something once in govt rather than more 'fiscal discipline' and managed decline. If it's just austerity with a sad emoji I really worry about what will replace them.

 

[Kenny]

I know the theory is that Starmer is playing the game with his U turns or just being passive on policy, but how many votes would this good policy have won/lost? Can't have been many, but it's been scrapped.

Labour U-turns on plan to scrap charitable status of private schools

The Opposition still plans to apply VAT to school fees in a bid to raise more than £1bn. Sky News understands the reasoning behind the change in tack is partly because applying VAT is much easier than changing the charitable status of schools.

news.sky.com

Have you read the reason why its changed?

Change Charity status - long and complicated process. They are still putting the VAT charge on fees as that was their main goal to raise over £1bn. That is staying, they are just dropping the time consuming element. Not much is changing and I wouldn't say its a U-Turn just a change in strategy on a policy idea and a change that means the money raising can start quicker.

A U-turn would be to abandon plans completely and not go ahead with the idea of charging VAT on school fees

 

[Kenny]

"Labour has changed its policy on private schools.

It will continue to charge business rates and VAT, raising up to £1.5bn. This will fund 6,500 new teachers, mental health support workers and early speech and language training.

However, it will no longer be removing charitable status.

Asked why, the source did not say - saying they "didn't want to get into the weeds of charitable status" and declined to say when the decision was made.

There's a clear political logic though. This allows the measure to be done in a finance bill - i.e. quickly. Removing charitable status from schools is a highly complex affair."

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Of course I read it.

How would they not have known that was the case in the first place?

 

[Kenny]

Dunno. Maybe they knew but decided to fast track the ability to raise the money they have mentioned and the only way to do that is by this method. Making something happen quicker rather than a goal to achieve in the spell in charge

I just think Sky using "u-turn" is wrong. End result of the policy hasn't changed, just how they do it has. That isn't a U-Turn

 

[Del Woppio]

Given the net result is basically the same, but this is a quicker way of doing it, tbh it just looks like people criticising it are just looking for ammo to use against them, media included. Flip-flop, culture wars and Net-Zero are all the Tories have, and the media/momentum are giving them a helping hand in pushing the narrative

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Yeah that's what it is.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Well done on recognising that