Keir Starmer at it again..

[leedswolf]

It’s a way to win elections. Don’t like it, start your own party.

Why? We already have our own party, it's called the Labour Party. How about the centrist right element fuck off and form there own party instead like Jenkins, Owen, Williams et al did in the past?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

While this factionalism continues the chances of the party as a whole are damaged

 

[leedswolf]

While this factionalism continues the chances of the party as a whole are damaged

So that's good reason for longstanding members of the party to ditch their principles and fuck off?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

No. I just think somehow the Labour Party needs to stop fighting with itself. There are wings in all parties. No idea what the real solution is to be honest.

I would favour the hold your nose get elected and mend things from in power route, but there are plenty of those on the left of the party who would not be happy with that as they would feel certain red lines would be crossed in order to secure electoral victory.

 

[leedswolf]

Don't all political parties have internal disagreements?

 

[BillyDee]

The Tories in 2019 when they purged the One Nation Conservatives as they took a further lurch to the right.
Worked (short term...) pretty well for them.

 

[Johnny75]

Why? We already have our own party, it's called the Labour Party. How about the centrist right element fuck off and form there own party instead like Jenkins, Owen, Williams et al did in the past?

The last left wing leader of the Labour party delivered the worst result in 85 years.

Time for a new direction.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Don't all political parties have internal disagreements?

They do. Thing is that Labour factions are really far apart now. They talk about 'broad church' but Labour are pushing it. There is a school of thought in the party that believes that to win power you have to continually compromise with the Right. Problem is that the Conservatives have drifted steadily further right since 1979. Many in Labour have sought to accomodate this and so we are at the point now where plenty of Labour MPs wouldn't look out of place in a Major cabinet. You can't reconcile that ideologically with a party founded by and for trade unions. However, these people are very reluctant to start their own party due to our electoral system.

 

[leedswolf]

The last left wing leader of the Labour party delivered the worst result in 85 years.

Time for a new direction.

Join the party and make a difference then.

 

[Johnny75]

Does voting not make a difference?

 

[Johnny75]

They do. Thing is that Labour factions are really far apart now. They talk about 'broad church' but Labour are pushing it. There is a school of thought in the party that believes that to win power you have to continually compromise with the Right. Problem is that the Conservatives have drifted steadily further right since 1979. Many in Labour have sought to accomodate this and so we are at the point now where plenty of Labour MPs wouldn't look out of place in a Major cabinet. You can't reconcile that ideologically with a party founded by and for trade unions. However, these people are very reluctant to start their own party due to our electoral system.

I think that's fair. With PR I think a lot more Labour and Conservative MP's would join the Lib Dems.

 

[leedswolf]

Does voting not make a difference?

Not if that vote is taken away from you.

Why do so many non-members (or indeed non-supporters of traditional Labour ideology) tell us that the party has to change to suit some other ideology?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I don’t think it’s so much about changing the party completely. It’s about appealing to enough of the electorate to guarantee a win. And the big lurch right by the Conservatives leaves a lot of voters disenfranchised as they can no longer countenance voting blue. Hoovering up those votes is the keys to 10 Downing Street.

 

[leedswolf]

The last left wing leader of the Labour party delivered the worst result in 85 years.

Time for a new direction.

Yet the previous GE, the support for a left wing leader meant the Tories had to appease the DUP to hold power.

The 2019 election was based on a one policy stand - Brexit.

 

[leedswolf]

I don’t think it’s so much about changing the party completely. It’s about appealing to enough of the electorate to guarantee a win. And the big lurch right by the Conservatives leaves a lot of voters disenfranchised as they can no longer countenance voting blue. Hoovering up those votes is the keys to 10 Downing Street.

Hang on, you stated earlier that the traditionalists should fuck off and form their own party.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Not if that vote is taken away from you.

Why do so many non-members (or indeed non-supporters of traditional Labour ideology) tell us that the party has to change to suit some other ideology?

It's always the Right we need to compromise with too. Never the Left. Great issue with that approach is that it ensures that political discourse moves ever rightwards. In 2010 all parties agreed austerity was a good idea ffs.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Yet the previous GE, the support for a left wing leader meant the Tories had to appease the DUP to hold power.

The 2019 election was based on a one policy stand - Brexit.

Starmer and others really pushed for that Brexit policy too. Once leader he immediately signed up for the hard Brexit we have now as he knew to do otherwise was electoral suicide.

 

[Johnny75]

Starmer and others really pushed for that Brexit policy too. Once leader he immediately signed up for the hard Brexit we have now as he knew to do otherwise was electoral suicide.

Remind me again what Corbyn's Brexit stance was?

Or his stance on Russia?

 

[Johnny75]

Not if that vote is taken away from you.

Why do so many non-members (or indeed non-supporters of traditional Labour ideology) tell us that the party has to change to suit some other ideology?

Who is taking that vote away from me or you?

If the Labour Party was to stay the same as it was under the last left wing traditionalist then the same thing would happen.

To get other votes, including mine, it needs to change and I won't be the only one will I?

To say the last GE was just about Brexit is head in the sand stuff.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hang on, you stated earlier that the traditionalists should fuck off and form their own party.

No I was referring to the extreme left wing of the likes of Momentum. The traditionalists to whom I imagine you are referring need to be in the “hold one’s nose” area I reckon. Imperfect labour government surely has to be better than Conservative government surely?