Keir Starmer at it again..

[Deutsch Wolf]

I do wonder how left a Labour manifesto would have to be for this Government to be voted back in though? It would give genuine rather than manufactured fuel for the RWP, but even so I think too many people have belatedly seen them for what they are. For example I think either of Corbyn's 2 GE manifestos would be elected against Sunak with Starmer fronting them

To continue the clunking analogies;

If you were top of the Championship with three games to go, your next game was away against a team who were say 20th, and you knew one win would guarantee promotion...

Would you change your tactics and go all out attack thinking you could stuff these 5-0 as you're obviously a far better team, or set up as you normally do and you'll probably win 1-0 or 2-0, and if you don't you have another dig coming up anyway?

I reckon if you studied manifesto commitments from 1992 onwards there'd be a really low fulfilment percentage across both parties. They're advertising brochures, not a restaurant menu.

The Tories won in 2019 with the thinnest manifesto ever, it didn't say anything.

 

[prawnking]

Perhaps. Rightly or wrongly I think Corbyn was the problem rather than the Labour manifestos at that point. Apart from young people attracted to socialism and older people who were already there, I don't think he connected with the mainstream electorate, and was too easily demonised and prone to scoring own goals

 

[Templeton Peck]

I do wonder how left a Labour manifesto would have to be for this Government to be voted back in though? It would give genuine rather than manufactured fuel for the RWP, but even so I think too many people have belatedly seen them for what they are. For example I think either of Corbyn's 2 GE manifestos would be elected against Sunak with Starmer fronting them

Yep. Tories have imploded and they can't play their Brexit card anymore. You'd think most people would want more social housing and improved schools and NHS.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I do wonder how left a Labour manifesto would have to be for this Government to be voted back in though? It would give genuine rather than manufactured fuel for the RWP, but even so I think too many people have belatedly seen them for what they are. For example I think either of Corbyn's 2 GE manifestos would be elected against Sunak with Starmer fronting them

Not the 2019 one. That was made up as they went along. 2017 was, for me, a true articulation of an alternative vision. And yes, fronted by Starmer and against Sunak it would be part of a winning election. But I don't think any of the main points of that manifesto exist within the Labour Party in 2023 which for me is a shame.

I am not and have never been a Corbynite or into Momentum (or any faction since the late 80s) but I have also never had a manifesto in front of me that was more "me" that 2017 and it is a tragedy Labour fucked it up so badly.

 

[prawnking]

You'd think most people would want more social housing and improved schools and NHS.

Be nice if they did, but there are a lot of selfish and 'aspirational' people in this country, not to mention those who are more preoccupied with who's getting more than them (and usually punching down while doing so) rather than everyone get a fair share

 

[sycophantia]

Be nice if they did, but there are a lot of selfish and 'aspirational' people in this country, not to mention those who are more preoccupied with who's getting more than them (and usually punching down while doing so) rather than everyone get a fair share

Unfortunately when push comes to shove, most of the world's population is like that.
Left wing politics is pretty much dead and despite what some people on here think, so is far right. Of course there will be pockets of them around forever.

 

[prawnking]

To people who grew up with left wing politics/parents around them (like many of us, I suspect?) it's not scary (though occasionally frustrating, pompous, unrealistic and self-defeating... ), but to a lot of people the Left represents a list of negative characteristics and priorities and flaws they don't want their country to have.

Now some of those people are irredeemable cunts, but not all. You have to bring at least some of them along with you and reassure and inspire them if you hope to run the country and actually put any of these ideals (even watered down ones) into practice.

That's slightly depressing, but it's what history has shown us, at least in my lifetime

 

[Wilf Wolf]

It’s a different world to 2017. Covid and Ukraine have shifted the goalposts massively and there’s not much money to play with so whilst making unfounded commitments wouldn’t be complete suicide it would be playing Russian roulette unnecessarily. Labour are in sight of victory and a just need to play a straight bat and see out the months. Plenty of time after they’ve been elected to introduce other policies in future King’s speeches.

 

[sycophantia]

To people who grew up with left wing politics/parents around them (like many of us, I suspect?) it's not scary (though occasionally frustrating, pompous, unrealistic and self-defeating... ), but to a lot of people the Left represents a list of negative characteristics and priorities and flaws they don't want their country to have.

Now some of those people are irredeemable cunts, but not all. You have to bring at least some of them along with you and reassure and inspire them if you hope to run the country and actually put any of these ideals (even watered down ones) into practice.

That's slightly depressing, but it's what history has shown us, at least in my lifetime

Yep the 70s and early 80s, socialist politics got a lot of bad press. As a youngster, I got called out on strike quite often for spurious reasons, got myself in trouble for questioning it sometimes and I counted myself as quite left wing at the time.e.

 

[Templeton Peck]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712047387902898301

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712047387902898301

And they will trade it for the release of hostages.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

They have the right of course they do. They own the button. But shit it’s Kier Starmers fault in momentum land.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Weird take.

 

[Johnny75]

Weird take.

Most of us have been saying the same about the far left posters on the same subject.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Ah bless.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Weird take.

I have seen weirder. People tying themselves in knots to support terrorism springs to mind.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

They have the right of course they do. They own the button. But shit it’s Kier Starmers fault in momentum land.

What do people think is Starmer's fault? What are you on about?

 

[Sniffer]

I have seen weirder. People tying themselves in knots to support terrorism springs to mind.

I don't think that anyone on here has.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Ah bless.

Are you a religious man?

 

[Johnny75]

I don't think that anyone on here has.

I can think of one...