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Jeremy Corbyn

Indeed. Many many more people killed by these two
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darlowolf64 said:
He's had his photo taken with a FORMER terrorist turned politician. He met member of Sinn Fein, in fact the leader of the political party. He also met with DUP Leader Ian Paisley who had great respect for the efforts Corbyn made in trying to find peace in Northern Ireland but, hey, the Daily Heil said he's a terrorist so that's that

Much better to be lead by a government who actively has deals with Saudi Arabia though
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No. Corbyn bad. Murdoch says so.
 
I sympathise with the Irish republican cause. If you look at the history of the region, there is a fair point there. One can sympathise with a cause without agreeing with the method. Terrorism is wrong, and that is the end of the matter.

However, being a sympathiser with the cause doesn't make you a terrorist.

And has been mentioned plenty of politicians met with Adams, McGuinness, and beyond them also the active high-ups in the IRA to try and create a peace.

The photo means nothing.
 
The IRA and wider republican movement grievances were legitimate, their methods were not. There is a generation in this country who have grown up being brainwashed that republicanism in Ireland is solely about the activities of the IRA - republicans generally have the same aims as the IRA therefore republicans are bad. As is the case in conflicts around the world and throughout history, there are blurred lines between politics and conflict, they often go hand in hand. There was terror inflicted on the streets of Northern Ireland by the British State and by unionist and republican paramilitaries- all directed by those who sought political power and influence. Gerry Adams was no different and at the time, the U.K. Were conducting secret negotiations....just like they have in every conflict because the cessation of violence will never be achieved solely by the use of force.

Jeremy Corbyn is a republican when it comes to Ireland...whether that is out of genuine empathy for the people of Ireland or based in politics where Ulster is at the vanguard of the revolution I don’t know...probably somewhere in between. The Conservatives are unionists and no doubt there are plenty of photos of leading conservatives of the time meeting with political leaders associated with loyalist paramilitaries (the good guys).

As someone who is Irish but grew up in the country, I am appalled at the attitudes and beliefs some British people still hold towards the conflict in Ireland. Very rarely do I see any empathy for the people of Ireland (particularly in the North) who lived through times most can barely imagine. No empathy for the conditions imposed on minority communities that gave rise to dissatisfaction, unrest and ultimately violence on the streets and the deaths of 1000s and nor do I see much evidence of reflection on the part of British people about the part their governments played in creating and then prolonging the conflict.

So when you use photos of Corbyn standing next to Gerry Adams or some rant about him being a terrorist sympathiser as a means of making a political point..fine. But fuck off. It’s that sort of one eyed ignorance that made parts of Birmingham no go areas for my dad and many other Irish people in the 70s and all that the last few years have shown is that how easy it is to resurface latent prejudices in gullible people if you repeat the same messages over and over again in the media.
 
So you don't think there was any other reason for Birmingham being a no go area in the 70's other than ignorance, nothing at all ??
 
Paul said:
So you don't think there was any other reason for Birmingham being a no go area in the 70's other than ignorance, nothing at all ??
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My dad was innocent. He, along with the majority of Irish people, had done nothing wrong but was hated just because he was Irish. What other reason is there?
 
The persecution of innocent people can't ever be defended. However the pub bombings were two of a number of attacks by Irish Republicans on the City and the residents felt under attack, so it's explainable if not acceptable.

As for the Corbyn photos, it's a narrative he's never going to shake. Too many people have been lead to believe he's an IRA sympathiser - whether he is/was or not or any explanation in mitigation have become an irrelevance. TWF's latest WUM is a good example.
 
Tony Towner said:
The persecution of innocent people can't ever be defended. However the pub bombings were two of a number of attacks by Irish Republicans on the City and the residents felt under attack, so it's explainable if not acceptable.

As for the Corbyn photos, it's a narrative he's never going to shake. Too many people have been lead to believe he's an IRA sympathiser - whether he is/was or not or any explanation in mitigation have become an irrelevance. TWF's latest WUM is a good example.
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Well the media could attack his policies but they don't want to go there so we get personal attacks and deliberate misunderstandings. Tbh though, I don't think most voters give a shit.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
The IRA and wider republican movement grievances were legitimate, their methods were not. There is a generation in this country who have grown up being brainwashed that republicanism in Ireland is solely about the activities of the IRA - republicans generally have the same aims as the IRA therefore republicans are bad. As is the case in conflicts around the world and throughout history, there are blurred lines between politics and conflict, they often go hand in hand. There was terror inflicted on the streets of Northern Ireland by the British State and by unionist and republican paramilitaries- all directed by those who sought political power and influence. Gerry Adams was no different and at the time, the U.K. Were conducting secret negotiations....just like they have in every conflict because the cessation of violence will never be achieved solely by the use of force.

Jeremy Corbyn is a republican when it comes to Ireland...whether that is out of genuine empathy for the people of Ireland or based in politics where Ulster is at the vanguard of the revolution I don’t know...probably somewhere in between. The Conservatives are unionists and no doubt there are plenty of photos of leading conservatives of the time meeting with political leaders associated with loyalist paramilitaries (the good guys).

As someone who is Irish but grew up in the country, I am appalled at the attitudes and beliefs some British people still hold towards the conflict in Ireland. Very rarely do I see any empathy for the people of Ireland (particularly in the North) who lived through times most can barely imagine. No empathy for the conditions imposed on minority communities that gave rise to dissatisfaction, unrest and ultimately violence on the streets and the deaths of 1000s and nor do I see much evidence of reflection on the part of British people about the part their governments played in creating and then prolonging the conflict.

So when you use photos of Corbyn standing next to Gerry Adams or some rant about him being a terrorist sympathiser as a means of making a political point..fine. But fuck off. It’s that sort of one eyed ignorance that made parts of Birmingham no go areas for my dad and many other Irish people in the 70s and all that the last few years have shown is that how easy it is to resurface latent prejudices in gullible people if you repeat the same messages over and over again in the media.
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This!
 
In my experience, most people in the south and the north are aware of what the terrorists of all hues were actually about: creating terror, ruling the normal folk with fear and making money. The politics was a good propaganda and recruitment tool. The nationalist extremists and loyalist extremists needed and fed off each other. The army should never have been sent in to keep the peace, it wasn't their purpose. It should have been a job for the police. Lots of mistakes were made. But then hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Things could have been so different if the proposal by Churchill of Home Rule had been enacted, but then it was the loyalists in the north that were firmly against that. It comes from centuries of mistrust. Not easy to unravel that I'm afraid.
 
The solution of the early twentieth century would have looked a very practical idea to those proposing it at the time but it was about 200 years too late. Things had rather moved beyond that proposed solution and so nobody was happy with it on either side.
 
arklowolf said:
In my experience, most people in the south and the north are aware of what the terrorists of all hues were actually about: creating terror, ruling the normal folk with fear and making money. The politics was a good propaganda and recruitment tool. The nationalist extremists and loyalist extremists needed and fed off each other. The army should never have been sent in to keep the peace, it wasn't their purpose. It should have been a job for the police. Lots of mistakes were made. But then hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Things could have been so different if the proposal by Churchill of Home Rule had been enacted, but then it was the loyalists in the north that were firmly against that. It comes from centuries of mistrust. Not easy to unravel that I'm afraid.
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True, whole thing is fucked and will never be resolved. What we have now is as good as it will get.

As it people in the North havent helped things as they have migrated on either side from the moderate parties UUP & SDLP to the hardliners DUP & Shinners, which shows how imbedded the us and them thing is.
 
From a Labour MP reportedly to Kevin Schofield of politics.home
b50a9a3722ce2c2b9f8f303114f0a3bb.jpg
 
Wilf Wolf said:
Tragic. Given the past two years it is incredible any opposition party could be behind in the polls.
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I think the second and third sentences are a bit ott, but can't argue with the rest. The chanting after the Brexit vote was akin to that of a pressure group not a serious political party
 
Spot on. I saw some of the 'highlights' of the Labour conference in Brighton and was struck by the number of hipsters in v neck tshirts who gave such rallying cries as "Back your leader" and "Get behind Corbyn".
It's like a student debate rather than a political conference and it seemed a bit of a shambles .
 
A leaflet is being passed around delegates at the conference today calling for members to walk out or sing 'oh Jeremy Corbyn' at Tom Watson's speech.

The Labour party are imploding at their own conference, this is just weird. It's almost like the plan was to self-destruct.

The shambles that was John McDonnell's speech and policy and Emily Thronbarry's speech opener were brilliant in their car crash nature.

It would be hilarious if the goovernment of the day weren't utter wankers and the nation needs a credible opposition. This lot are a mess.
 
Its weird. It feels like some kind of race to the bottom where even the Lib Dems could win a GE by being the least dysfunctional /unelectable of the lot. Bonkers. Oh for a proper opposition party. Maybe one will rise from the ashes as I reckon both Labour and Conservative parties as we know them are about to implode.
 
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